USADA - Armstrong

[red_flanders]

Also, it's amazing how gladly Armstrong wants a spanking from the UCI, and the UCI alone. He trusts them, he'll take their verdict. UCI looks really bad here just being mentioned.

I found that striking as well.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I am so highly suspicious of everything Armstrong pulls, is this some sort of a trick....or maybe leading astray? As in, get their guards down and then surprise the heck out if USADA ...

I really think USADA is extremely competent though....I'm just leery of something coming out of the blue with the unscrupulous Armstrong team.

Please tell me I'm way off base ....

 

[Velodude]

I am so highly suspicious of everything Armstrong pulls, is this some sort of a trick....or maybe leading astray? As in, get their guards down and then surprise the heck out if USADA ...

I really think USADA is extremely competent though....I'm just leery of something coming out of the blue with the unscrupulous Armstrong team.

Please tell me I'm way off base ....

You could be right. It has cost him big bucks to obtain the best representation those big bucks could buy.

They throw in a lot of chaff (eg 500-600 tests) to divert attention away from the thrust of their real argument.

If the case was that hopeless for Armstrong they would have strongly urged him to negotiate an outcome with USADA to avoid the cost of the proceedings.

But then with his psycho profile Armstrong may have issued scorched earth instructions not to concede or admit.

 

[MarkvW]

I am so highly suspicious of everything Armstrong pulls, is this some sort of a trick....or maybe leading astray? As in, get their guards down and then surprise the heck out if USADA ...

I really think USADA is extremely competent though....I'm just leery of something coming out of the blue with the unscrupulous Armstrong team.

Please tell me I'm way off base ....

The jurisdictional motion is the 'race of truth.' Trickery isn't going to get him anywhere. We've seen how straightforward and direct USADA's argument is. Armstrong is going to have to more than match that. Whining like Mary Decker isn't going to get him anywhere.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

In reading the complaint and the response, you can see Lance's attorneys playing a game of S&M Twister trying to make a point, where the USADA is precise and concise. Judges like the latter and are generally not fond of the former.

 

[fatandfast]

Wow they went right for the 500 test BULL.....very nice.

all race fans can only hope that when the USADA starts its test count they go bac to nationals and districts where Armstrong got a result and was tested. They may want to take a look at Worlds, a race that he won and was tested. All the tour wins,tested.
I am not saying Armstrong didn't dope. Just saying going after him and giving the USCF/USAC a free pass is f-cking idiotic . Going after him and allowing the organizers of the TDF, CDL or Tour of Switzerland organizers and control people a free pass is BS.

Lance has been tested, the testers are an issue and the sooner the case is based on how he went through a 20 year career by being passed through the system as the USADA is concluding we will all be better off. If Lance is guilty then what is USAcycling?
If the USADA is saying everybody else's tests are BS then start naming names. Who lied when Lance deserved a positive result and punishment?

 

[thehog]

all race fans can only hope that when the USADA starts its test count they go bac to nationals and districts where Armstrong got a result and was tested. They may want to take a look at Worlds, a race that he won and was tested. All the tour wins,tested.
I am not saying Armstrong didn't dope. Just saying going after him and giving the USCF/USAC a free pass is f-cking idiotic . Going after him and allowing the organizers of the TDF, CDL or Tour of Switzerland organizers and control people a free pass is BS.

Lance has been tested, the testers are an issue and the sooner the case is based on how he went through a 20 year career by being passed through the system as the USADA is concluding we will all be better off. If Lance is guilty then what is USAcycling?
If the USADA is saying everybody else's tests are BS then start naming names. Who lied when Lance deserved a positive result and punishment?

Why would USADA count. Lance is the one telling the story & making the claim.

He needs to pony up on the 500.

We wait with anticipation what he might come up with next!

 

[MarkvW]

all race fans can only hope that when the USADA starts its test count they go bac to nationals and districts where Armstrong got a result and was tested. They may want to take a look at Worlds, a race that he won and was tested. All the tour wins,tested.
I am not saying Armstrong didn't dope. Just saying going after him and giving the USCF/USAC a free pass is f-cking idiotic . Going after him and allowing the organizers of the TDF, CDL or Tour of Switzerland organizers and control people a free pass is BS.

Lance has been tested, the testers are an issue and the sooner the case is based on how he went through a 20 year career by being passed through the system as the USADA is concluding we will all be better off. If Lance is guilty then what is USAcycling?
If the USADA is saying everybody else's tests are BS then start naming names. Who lied when Lance deserved a positive result and punishment?

That's a great speech. It's almost as great as Eric "Otter" Stratton's speech in 'Animal House'!!!
http://youtu.be/ROxvT8KKdFw

 

[D-Queued]

You could be right. It has cost him big bucks to obtain the best representation those big bucks could buy.

They throw in a lot of chaff (eg 500-600 tests) to divert attention away from the thrust of their real argument.

If the case was that hopeless for Armstrong they would have strongly urged him to negotiate an outcome with USADA to avoid the cost of the proceedings.

But then with his psycho profile Armstrong may have issued scorched earth instructions not to concede or admit.

There is no real argument. The 500 make-believe tests is the best that they can come up with.

If they actually had an argument, let alone a strong argument, they would be using it. His lawyers are not fools, and the judge has already issued a warning.

Lance stands to lose (at least) $12m - as SCA has warned they will absolutely go after him. Desperation time.

He has demonstrated no bounds in his doping. Lance is so consistent, that his behavior is entirely predictable. Brace yourself for further inanity.

His lawyers couldn't be happier. Best client ever. Kah ching.

Dave.

 

[eleven]

Yeah. that's more or less what I meant. When they were riding for US postal as domestics they looked invincible, and still managed to pick up the odd stage win along the way. Hincapie won the Queen stage in the Tour, but 'never quite made it' away from US postal. Most of the others were busted quite quickly after leaving USP. Sure, Landis won the TdF, and lasted til some time the following week, the Thursday?

I don't see it.

Hamilton never did a thing with US Postal but turn the cranks. He went on to win a classic and a stage in dramatic fashion.

Hincapie went from being a standard classics rider to being...a standard classics rider. His win in the tour was pure circumstance when he got in the right break and had an excuse not to work on the final climb.

Landis went on to win the TDF after winning nothing in particular with US Postal.

Heras went on to win the Vuelta.

All of them had more success and results after US Postal than with it.

 

[Runitout]

In reading the complaint and the response, you can see Lance's attorneys playing a game of S&M Twister trying to make a point, where the USADA is precise and concise. Judges like the latter and are generally not fond of the former.

I am wholly unfamiliar with the US style of pleading, which seems to meld traditional common law pleadings with an Outline of Submissions.

But I can identify a pig of an argument when I see one, and Armstrong's is dressed in calico and wearing a wig.

 

[MarkvW]

There is no real argument. The 500 make-believe tests is the best that they can come up with.

If they actually had an argument, let alone a strong argument, they would be using it. His lawyers are not fools, and the judge has already issued a warning.

Lance stands to lose (at least) $12m - as SCA has warned they will absolutely go after him. Desperation time.

He has demonstrated no bounds in his doping. Lance is so consistent, that his behavior is entirely predictable. Brace yourself for further inanity.

His lawyers couldn't be happier. Best client ever. Kah ching.

Dave.

We'll see Farm's answer soon. It won't be impressive.

 

[eleven]

Wow³ indeed.
Seems Lance needs lawyers that don't make fools of themselves. USADA are having a field day here.

In light of the myriad investigations the Armstrong attorneys have successfully overcome, do you find it reasonable to believe they just have it wrong this time, that they are, in your words, fools?

Really?

I think you underestimate the talents of his team from both a legal and a public relations perspective. He's going to pay a significant price here, but "the rumors of his death have been greatly exaggerated." You'd think folks might have learned something from the last few investigations.

 

[MarkvW]

In light of the myriad investigations the Armstrong attorneys have successfully overcome, do you find it reasonable to believe they just have it wrong this time, that they are, in your words, fools?

Really?

I think you underestimate the talents of his team from both a legal and a public relations perspective.

The Portrait of the Cyclist as an Evil Superhero.

 

[131313]

all race fans can only hope that when the USADA starts its test count they go bac to nationals and districts where Armstrong got a result and was tested. They may want to take a look at Worlds, a race that he won and was tested. All the tour wins,tested.
I am not saying Armstrong didn't dope. Just saying going after him and giving the USCF/USAC a free pass is f-cking idiotic . Going after him and allowing the organizers of the TDF, CDL or Tour of Switzerland organizers and control people a free pass is BS.

you do realize he basically owns USAC, right, and has for a long time? While I agree those guys need to go down, this is a big part of that.

Lance has been tested, the testers are an issue and the sooner the case is based on how he went through a 20 year career by being passed through the system as the USADA is concluding we will all be better off. If Lance is guilty then what is USAcycling?
If the USADA is saying everybody else's tests are BS then start naming names. Who lied when Lance deserved a positive result and punishment?

I mostly agree, but keep in mind, if there's one thing to remember from this it's that the tests actually WORK. They aren't BS, the breakdown comes in the "results management" part of it. Fortunately, USAC and USOC are now out of this business. While drug tests don't catch athletes all of the time, take a look at how many times Armstrong actually tested positive vs. how many times he was actually tested; at least 4 or 5, excluding the retrospective EPO samples were positive. Add into the mix 6 EPO positives, and you have almost 10% of his samples being positive or indicative off doping. The breakdown occurred in how the results of those tests were managed.

 

[Turner29]

In light of the myriad investigations the Armstrong attorneys have successfully overcome, do you find it reasonable to believe they just have it wrong this time, that they are, in your words, fools?

Really?

I think you underestimate the talents of his team from both a legal and a public relations perspective. He's going to pay a significant price here, but "the rumors of his death have been greatly exaggerated." You'd think folks might have learned something from the last few investigations.

If you take the time to read the motion filed by USADA to dismiss Armstrong's suit, any open-minded individual cannot come to any other conclusion.

 

[BYOP88]

I don't see it.

Hamilton never did a thing with US Postal but turn the cranks. He went on to win a classic and a stage in dramatic fashion.

Hincapie went from being a standard classics rider to being...a standard classics rider. His win in the tour was pure circumstance when he got in the right break and had an excuse not to work on the final climb.

Landis went on to win the TDF after winning nothing in particular with US Postal.

Heras went on to win the Vuelta.

All of them had more success and results after US Postal than with it.

Heras was the exception as he had won stuff before joining USPS and was more than likely signed to reduce the rivals Armstrong had to face.

 

[MarkvW]

If you take the time to read the motion filed by USADA to dismiss Armstrong's suit, any open-minded individual cannot come to any other conclusion.

Well . . . technically . . . any open-minded individual would at least wait to see how Lance responds to the motion.

Not that I'm particularly open-minded, or anything like that . . .

 

[Velodude]

That's a great speech. It's almost as great as Eric "Otter" Stratton's speech in 'Animal House'!!!
http://youtu.be/ROxvT8KKdFw

Fatandfast has been an unwaverinig true believer in LA throughout.

For some varying periods of time you were unashamedly on the same page as fatandfast.

 

[MarkvW]

Fatandfast has been an unwaverinig true believer in LA throughout.

For some varying periods of time you were unashamedly on the same page as fatandfast.

I just disagreed with your baseless pronouncements regarding the criminal case. You translate that to fanboyism. You're entitled to your own mind-reading opinion, but I don't think that you'd be able to point out a single post of mine that tags me as a fanboy.

And I'm not inviting you to a dialog. You are very unpleasant.

 

[Turner29]

Well . . . technically . . . any open-minded individual would at least wait to see how Lance responds to the motion.

Not that I'm particularly open-minded, or anything like that . . .

Is the motion not the decision of Judge Sparks, since it is a motion to dismiss a suit brought by Armstrong?

 

[MarkvW]

Is the motion not the decision of Judge Sparks, since it is a motion to dismiss a suit brought by Armstrong?

The motion is not the decision. The motion is the motion. The decision follows the hearing. The hearing necessarily includes hearing both sides.

 

[Velodude]

There is no real argument. The 500 make-believe tests is the best that they can come up with.

If they actually had an argument, let alone a strong argument, they would be using it. His lawyers are not fools, and the judge has already issued a warning.

Lance stands to lose (at least) $12m - as SCA has warned they will absolutely go after him. Desperation time.

He has demonstrated no bounds in his doping. Lance is so consistent, that his behavior is entirely predictable. Brace yourself for further inanity.

His lawyers couldn't be happier. Best client ever. Kah ching.

Dave.

Dave, I am certainly not an LA fan.

But I would not expect that the high powered lawyers LA has instructed to prepare and file the motion would knowingly engage in frivolous litigation. Even just to placate their litigation prone client.

Most courts have rules that can be extremely onerous on lawyers who engage in frivolous law suits.

The Federal Court rules spell it out in Rule 11

Note the sanctions which can lead to loss of standing before the court, monetary compensation for the other party's total legal costs, etc..

I would wager that LA's lawyers will withdraw some of the factual contentions before the fateful day in August.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I just disagreed with your baseless pronouncements regarding the criminal case. You translate that to fanboyism. You're entitled to your own mind-reading opinion, but I don't think that you'd be able to point out a single post of mine that tags me as a fanboy.

And I'm not inviting you to a dialog. You are very unpleasant.

There were many. Glad to see you have grown a brain though.

 

[Turner29]

The motion is not the decision. The motion is the motion. The decision follows the hearing. The hearing necessarily includes hearing both sides.

Could not Judge Sparks rule again on the motion without a hearing? He certainly did in round 1.