USADA - Armstrong

[MacRoadie]

Hey, Betsy took time away from the buffet to answer some questions

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/5-questions-betsy-andreu

Naw, she just grabbed a doggie bag...

 

[LauraLyn]

This may be a question more for LauraLyn, can Wonderboy just sit back in silence and then cry to the courts once the penalty is handed down without a court challenging that?

Lance can sit on his thumbs until midnight. But he will then have no court available to hear his case - CAS, Federal, or the Supreme Court of Malta.

He could ask his five children to hear his appeal, but the outcome would be doubtful for him.

 

[Race Radio]

Naw, she just grabbed a doggie bag...

She is making good progress in eating through that pesky lap band

 

[DirtyWorks]

Hey, Betsy took time away from the buffet to answer some questions

You owe me a keyboard. This one just had coffee sprayed on it.

 

[BroDeal]

Right. He has nothing to fight yet, as USADA has not injured him yet. Once they do, then he can go back to federal court and make all kinds of new claims.

Armstrong should accept arbitration then before the hearing file suit alleging the proceedings are unfair because the scope of what is covered cannot be determined before arbitration. There is no way for him to know whether he can be sanctioned for offenses beyond the SOL or before the UCI signed with WADA and introduction of evidence for those times will fundamentally alter his chance of success in arbitration.

 

[Race Radio]

I would keep a close eye on Bicycling.com over the next few days

 

[LauraLyn]

Does armstrong have until 11:59 to decide on his deadline?

11:59:59 pm, approximately.

 

[DirtyWorks]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/5-questions-betsy-andreu

Ugh. Some of Bill's descriptives were pretty bad logical fallacies like, "How long have you been jealous, bitter, and obsessive?" Classy guy.

 

[Race Radio]

This may be a question more for LauraLyn, can Wonderboy just sit back in silence and then cry to the courts once the penalty is handed down without a court challenging that?

He can cry to CAS, but he would lose. He could try again in Federal court and push the Government agent argument, but he would fail.

The best thing is to take the sanction then pretend that USADA does not matter. Diminish them and the witnesses in the press.

 

[QuickStepper]

He would be refusing to accpet that the arbitrators have the right to arbitrate on the scope of arbitration. Once starts on administrative remedies he is accepting this point.

He took this to US courts and they washed their hands. CAS is the only other game in town.

That's not the case. The AAA Rules (the ones USADA is bound to follow) provide that even the question of the arbitrator's jurisdiction, is an aribtrable question that can be decided in the context of the arbitration. Likewise, the power (or jurisdiction) of USADA to bring some of the claims (e.g., the "conspiracy" allegations), or to seek some of the remedies that are apparently sought (e.g., going back beyond 2004 and stripping titles) are issues that can be determined by the arbitrators in the context of this arbitraiton.

That's exactly what Judge Sparks also believed when he dismissed the federal case.

The only way "CAS is the only other game in town" is either 1) an appeal after Armstrong participates in the AAA-rule governed arbitration first and exhausts that process, or 2) if Armstrong actually takes USADA up on the prior offer to allow the arbitration in the first instance to be held before CAS in Switzerland.

 

[fatandfast]

Thank you. I have stated it clearly.

To say too much, the principle set of legal concerns revolves around those of free associations, not around labor laws.

Agree your bold. It is even larger than you express it. This is where the blindside can come from.

Wishing you the best of luck.

Puzzled by personal information. If Z or Levi explained even briefly to USAC officials that they knew Armstrong doped.or had any knowledge of broken rules within the code of conduct for a federation member,why allow them to continue. The misconduct is under the same lower federation rule that Lance broke. Why are some cheaters allowed to continue at such a critical time? Or was the report that Levi ,George and others false?

I live in NYC where a teacher who touches a kid or even goes as far as having sex keep their job due to procedure

 

[LauraLyn]

The best thing is to take the sanction then pretend that USADA does not matter. Diminish them and the witnesses in the press.

Not a possible route.

 

[LauraLyn]

Puzzled by personal information. If Z or Levi explained even briefly to USAC officials that they knew Armstrong doped.or had any knowledge of broken rules within the code of conduct for a federation member,why allow them to continue. The misconduct is under the same lower federation rule that Lance broke. Why are some cheaters allowed to continue at such a critical time? Or was the report that Levi ,George and others false?

I live in NYC where a teacher who touches a kid or even goes as far as having sex keep their job due to procedure

It ain't NYC. Your scenario is a possible dream - again, only after arbitration.

 

[frenchfry]

He can cry to CAS, but he would lose. He could try again in Federal court and push the Government agent argument, but he would fail.

The best thing is to take the sanction then pretend that USADA does not matter. Diminish them and the witnesses in the press.

Agree, if I was him this is what I would do. He knows he would fail, so this offers the minimum of exposure and a maximum of opportunity to slime others. In fact, if I was a witness I would be the most worried if this is the route he takes.

The discussion can then turn to how the details can get out, and how much of the dirty business will be made public. Can we count on the arbitration of the others that are accused and have accepted arbitration? This would be a problem for Armstrong.

 

[serottasyclist]

Puzzled by personal information. If Z or Levi explained even briefly to USAC officials that they knew Armstrong doped.or had any knowledge of broken rules within the code of conduct for a federation member,why allow them to continue. The misconduct is under the same lower federation rule that Lance broke. Why are some cheaters allowed to continue at such a critical time? Or was the report that Levi ,George and others false?

I live in NYC where a teacher who touches a kid or even goes as far as having sex keep their job due to procedure

Those folks talked to USADA, not USAC. And if USADA is trying to keep the names of witnesses "private", it certainly wouldn't do to charge them now. So delayed charging of those witnesses makes since in the context of the Armsrong case -- it may benefit those riders in that they can keep racing, but my guess is that from USADA's perpsective, the delayed sanction is for prevention of intimidation not as a favor. At least they can certainly argue that position with a very straight face.

 

[QuickStepper]

This would be wrong under US labor laws. Lance needs to establish that he met all rules of employment. He was tested by races,sponsors and doctors treating him before during and after a life threating illness.

His employer and workplace established rules. That he not only complied with,but accelled at in every expectation. In any right to work environment Armstrong is the victim. He has to be able to work. If the boss says misuse a forklift.work thru lunch,or anything else illegal it is wrong but can hardly be his sole responsibility to air it.Even if he gained the most,million times more than everybody else,it's not his job to change the flow of the 100 year old river that is pro cycling.

We are just now seeing labor laws. In the US step in for NFL ,MLB and NBA players that went with the flow only to find out it led over Niagra Falls..
Armstrong wrong? Absolute. but he did not set up this system.

Wow....this is so far out on the fringe that even I'm stunned. Applicability of U.S. labor laws to this USADA vs. Armstrong anti-doping case?

I just don't see it. No way. Armstrong was only an employee of the teams he raced for and whose jerseys he wore when he raced. No team has taken any action against him, nor could they because he's retired and no longer works for those teams. Oh, and none of the activity alleged in the USADA case even occurred in the U.S.

U.S. Labor Laws?

I don't think so.

 

[thehog]

Has Lance let Travis win yet? Has Lance lost?

 

[Cobblestones]

Will USADA come out with a press release at 00:00:01 telling us how Lance has decided?

 

[JRTinMA]

Ugh. Some of Bill's descriptives were pretty bad logical fallacies like, "How long have you been jealous, bitter, and obsessive?" Classy guy.

Really bad reader or enjoy making things up?

 

[Race Radio]

Not a possible route.

What do you mean?

He cant stop the sanction but he can launch a media campaign to confuse the issue in the public. Witch hunt, rigged system, etc

 

[thehog]

What do you mean?

He cant stop the sanction but he can launch a media campaign to confuse the issue in the public. Witch hunt, rigged system, etc

Will anyone listen?

The boy who cried wolf.

 

[fatandfast]

It ain't NYC. Your scenario is a possible dream - again, only after arbitration.

So the dream is alive?
That Lance was employed at a company that didn't follow US labor laws?
Is the dream alive that the governing body of his sport allows cheaters to continue...if the reason is really,really good?
If these guys broke the rules and get a deferred so that they can promote federation races and make money,I hope the court weighs that

 

[Race Radio]

Will anyone listen?

The boy who cried wolf.

The 300,000 cycling fans dropped him years ago. The millions of cancer groupies are still willing dupes.

 

[LauraLyn]

What do you mean?

He cant stop the sanction but he can launch a media campaign to confuse the issue in the public. Witch hunt, rigged system, etc

No.

You cannot challenge in Federal court and then pretend it doesn't matter.

If he doesn't arbitrate, it means he has been abandoned.

 

[bigmatt24]

... Or he'll start some breakaway league that will be seen as the freak show it is.

Not the XFL, but the XC(ycling)L. And Lance's jersey will read, "They Hates Me".