USADA - Armstrong

[webvan]

I have won as many Tour's as Lance now.

Nice.

Talking of winners this is what L'Express came up with as far as the top finisher who never got mentioned in a doping affair :

1999: Daniele Nardello (7e du Tour).
2000: Daniele Nardello (10e du Tour).
2001: Andreï Kivilev (4e du Tour).
2002: Carlos Sastre (10e du Tour).
2003: Haimar Zubeldia (5e du Tour).
2004: Carlos Sastre (8e du Tour).
2005: Cadel Evans (8e du Tour).

So Sastre has three wins now and Cadel two as well as Nardello!

 

[trompe le monde]

Still can't believe that Armstrong decided to fold like a cheap suit. A bit of a let down as I was hoping for arbitration, but the charlatan does what he does best, ignore the brutal facts when they can destroy his own sense of vanity.

I wish I had the funds to fuel and continue to fuel such an overbearing lie as Armstrong did and does. I suppose walking away from arbitration provides Armstrong and his spin doctors more time to reimagine and rebrand Armstrong for the masses, but I reckon that once more facts begin to emerge Armstrong will be forced to trade occasional media quips for uncomfortable silence.

Once the Armstrong empire crashes, will it come down with a whimper or with a deafening thud? I suppose the sound it makes will be an indicator of how much the populace really cares.

 

[The Valley]

The best thing we can hope the $hit hits the fan at Bruyneels arbitration so the UCI will have a clean up.

That is a good point - I'd almost forgotten Bruyneel in today's hoo-hah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he still has some time before he has to give his decision on whether to go through the USADA tribunal or to take the same route as Armstrong and not fight the charges.

My initial guess is that he'd follow the same route as Armstrong, as if he goes to the tribunal then presumably all the evidence would come out, which is exactly what Armstrong has tried to avoid. It's a bit more complicated for Bruyneel though, since he is still actively earning a living from the sport, and if he accepts the charges then he'll get banned from the sport for life.

Actually it appears that all the evidence may be released by the USADA at some point anyway: here's Travis Tygart quoted on VeloNation:

“Absolutely…at the right time,” he said, talking about that evidence. “Obviously there are other cases that are alleged to be involved in the conspiracy. Their cases are still proceeding, so it will be in due course.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-against-him-wont-continue.aspx#ixzz24T3CA31S

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Like most of you, I've been following a lot of the news sites and blogs and the associated comments. Some are mind blowingly stupid, but for me, this one takes the cake. Lance is now being compared to the Guildford Four. A snippet below, not sure if I feel sadder for the tool that posted this, or for the 112 people that liked it. It just makes me angry... implying he has suffered torture.

"For any who take Lance Armstrong's prepared statement as being an admission of guilt, I refer you to the story of the Guildford Four and thousands of other cases where the human psyche breaks under great strain"

Full post by Alan Wright found here in the comments section....
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/s...-tour-de-france-titles.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

I'm not as well versed on the legalities as some others, and sorry if this has been covered already or is a stupid question, but where does the Court of Arbitration for Sport fit into this? Is there any possibility that Lance can take his case there once he is sanctioned, or does the fact he refused arbitration with USADA mean it is not possible?

I try to stay away from the comments of those that support him. A few years ago I was one of them.

Rational arguing is not what eventually breaks them down. Eventually intelligent people just have to face reality when they are ready and can't be forced into it, that approach (being forced) just made me and probably others dig in my heels.

Quickest way (and it won't be too quick) is just leave them alone and work it out on their own schedule. Some never will. That's just the way it is. In the end the truth is just a relentless force that can't be broken down by time, force of will or anything else. Instead it breaks down those who resist it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I see this as only one small step. Armstrongs PR machine has already started and hell fight this in the court of public opinion and lawsuits for some time.

If you read news clips, and comments in the mainstream you can already see this happening.

 

[Microchip]

Originally Posted by LauraLyn
The yellow jerseys and the trophies will go to the junk yard. It is that simple.

I want one! Before it reaches the dump! I want one!

 

[Benotti69]

I see this as only one small step. Armstrongs PR machine has already started and hell fight this in the court of public opinion and lawsuits for some time.

If you read news clips, and comments in the mainstream you can already see this happening.

I doubt he will be instigating lawsuits but he may be recieving a few.

The days of threatening to sue with a big press conference then doing nothing are over.

 

[thehog]

I see this as only one small step. Armstrongs PR machine has already started and hell fight this in the court of public opinion and lawsuits for some time.

If you read news clips, and comments in the mainstream you can already see this happening.

Give it a few days. Once the small shock wears off for some the truth will rise to the top.

Besides Travis is going to release a good portion of the evidence.

 

[thehog]

I doubt he will be instigating lawsuits but he may be recieving a few.

The days of threatening to sue with a big press conference then doing nothing are over.

Correct. He can't afford to be interviewed either because they'll ask him "the question"....

It's all downhill from here.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Can anyone show me any mainstream news articles that are scoffing at Armstrongs claim that this is a "witch hunt"? Any that directly give credit to USADA? Any that say Armstrong did this because arbitration would show he doped with certainty? Because that is the truth, and I'm not seeing it anywhere in the media. None. They all report Armstrongs nonsensical claims like they are possibly valid and worthy concerns.

 

[Fidolix]

He´s a joke, probably the most pathetic person on this planet.
I feel sorry for all the people in his manipulation circus, the guy is sick, I hope someone will show some humanity and compassion and have him involuntarily committed to a psychological institution, so he can be provided with the help that he so badly needs.

 

[BroDeal]

Can anyone show me any mainstream news articles that are scoffing at Armstrongs claim that this is a "witch hunt"? Any that directly give credit to USADA? Any that say Armstrong did this because arbitration would show he doped with certainty? Because that is the truth, and I'm not seeing it anywhere in the media. None. They all report Armstrongs nonsensical claims like they are possibly valid and worthy concerns.

NY Daily News

 

[DominicDecoco]

" What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my *** six hours a day. What are you on?"

 

[indurain666]

Finally, some justice. Not over just yet, but a small step that was long overdue.

 

[microdose]

support USADA

Given all the bluff, legal threats, derogatory statements etc that USADA and Tygart have had to out up with the Armstrong machine + UCI does anyone know of the best way to show support for Tygart & USADA?

I'd love it if someone who was good with words could craft a general letter of support that cycling fans worldwide could sign/support as an online petition.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Carl Lewis confessed to drug positive cover-up!

Witch hunt, you say, Lance?

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay?cat=sport&type=article

 

[neineinei]

Berto: Armstrong always showed spectacular physical conditioning

"Contador, who hesitantly partnered Armstrong during the American's comeback in 2009, says he has not followed the case and "I'm not thinking about it."
The Spanish cyclist, speaking before the start of the seventh stage of the Spanish Vuelta, says Armstrong "always showed such strength, great intelligence and spectacular physical conditioning.""

http://www.3news.co.nz/Alberto-Cont...rong/tabid/415/articleID/266777/Default.aspx?

 

[poupou]

I have to think that Hinault is a little bit happy, even if he won't say so. It was a farce to have Armstrong with more wins than him.

Not sure. Hinault doesn't like BS and he is always straight. I don't think he could like someone like Armstrong.

 

[ManInFull]

Correct. He can't afford to be interviewed either because they'll ask him "the question"....

It's all downhill from here.

I'd be shocked if some TV personality or writer who is sympathetic to Lance does not get the interview.

 

[hiero2]

sorry people, but this does not change the fact that he won 7 Tour's, he was the one that pedaled every stroke, he covered attacks, he attacked, he crossed every finish line, he stood on the champs elysees 7 times in the yellow jersey, you simply can not take that away from him no matter how loud you scream 'cheater' now.
I don't like Lance, nor have I ever been a fan, but this is very detrimental to cycling and helps no one, thanks Travis Tygart and POS rat fink Landis

POS Landis? Wow, dude, you just took yourself WAY down in my books.

Talking of winners this is what L'Express came up with as far as the top finisher who never got mentioned in a doping affair :

1999: Daniele Nardello (7e du Tour).
2000: Daniele Nardello (10e du Tour).
2001: Andreï Kivilev (4e du Tour).
2002: Carlos Sastre (10e du Tour).
2003: Haimar Zubeldia (5e du Tour).
2004: Carlos Sastre (8e du Tour).
2005: Cadel Evans (8e du Tour).

So Sastre has three wins now and Cadel two as well as Nardello!

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me, except it is hard to believe anybody in the top 20 was RELATIVELY clean up through 2002 or 3. Maybe even later. See : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/david-walsh-on-armstrong-and-usadas-charges

. . .
Actually it appears that all the evidence may be released by the USADA at some point anyway: here's Travis Tygart quoted on VeloNation:

“Absolutely…at the right time,” he said, talking about that evidence. “Obviously there are other cases that are alleged to be involved in the conspiracy. Their cases are still proceeding, so it will be in due course.”

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-against-him-wont-continue.aspx#ixzz24T3CA31S

I sure hope it does come out. I have to agree with so many of the comments here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-cycling-reacts-armstrong-to-lose-tour-titles. It is so late in coming.

I also do not care if LA loses his wins. They make NO difference, because the whole top end was involved in the same business. What would have made a difference is when all the evidence comes out. All of the "hows" and "how-to's" need to come out and be made public, so that we can have a reasonable chance of preventing them in the future. They need to be public so that even the "doubting Thomases" work with anti-doping procedures. Some never will, of course, but we need most to work to keep things clean.

Without Lance being painted publicly as guilty, the knowledge that doping was practically universal in the pro peloton for so many years will never be strong. That knowledge has to be strong. To be "strong", it must be widely known and accepted as true. Without the main figurehead of doping being known, the rest is just throwing the occassional tidbit to the mobs to keep them quiet, while in reality they starve.

The USADA must release their evidence. Maybe they are waiting a few days so people like George can finish out their careers. Fine, I can understand that - but the evidence must come out.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Australian writer = Rupert Guinness?
American writer = ?
British writer = ?

Charles Pelkey
John Wilcockson


BTW - you should be hit with a random forum dope control - no sleep and still posting.....

 

[MarkvW]

I am really disappointed by de Jongh's comment - "By deleting Lance, the list of winners doesn't become more credible." - if the titles were left vacant(which is the only way to go IMHO) that would be more credible because there would be one fraudster less on the list, right?

And I'm in no way surprised with Brian Holm's comment - who said that justice has to be quick - even slow justice is better than no justice? Of course it's better if it is quick, but finally it is a matter of giving negative reinforcement to dopers and the whole community to show them the values we want to see in sports and that they can't/won't evade/hide from consequences of cheating.

The goal of making a credible list of winners from the EPO era is impossible. Strip Lance of his titles. Give them to Jan, Ivan, whatever . . . Then recognize the list of winners for what it is: Uncaught dopers from a dope-saturated era. Hopefully the stupid absurdity of it all will be a warning for the future.

 

[pugdog]

Boy do you know little about the sport.

Go read wiki cycling doping page and see how many other scapegoats there have been.

Cycling is a sport incredibly badly managed from the doping perspective and the clean perspective.

I wonder is anyone wishing Armstrong retired after no.5 in 2003

Merckx, Anquetil, Pelissier scapegoats? really? What annoys me about all this is that cycling is now being made to appear as the sport to cast opprobrium on. So Blake runs and people cheer, football players go untested, swimmers are admired for 17 gold medals, female gymnasts reach puberty at the age of 25 and last figures I heard of 800 athletes of all sorts died of unexplained heart failure.

This is no victory, this is the massive sweeping of the problem under the carpet.

 

[Anonymous]

Charles Pelkey
John Wilcockson


BTW - you should be hit with a random forum dope control - no sleep and still posting.....

Pelkey in there is disappointing.

 

[BotanyBay]

Boy did I sleep well last night (yawn).

The TDF needs to have a drum-out ceremony. Lance walking down a black carpet, climbing upon the podium, Bernie rips the yellow jersey off his back, Lance climbs down and walks away as the assembled peloton subsequently turns their backs as the slow snare drum beat wanes.