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"USPS/Disco was clean. Never had a positive test."

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pmcg76 said:
I cannot believe nobody has made this point yet as it stops this silly argument right away. Frankie Andreu & another unnamed rider both admitted to doping in 1999 whilst with US Postal. Lets not forget Andreu was a longtime friend and companion to Lance since his Motorola days. Many including myself felt Jonathan Vaughters was the other unidentified rider but he denies this.

I suggest everyone should also read this interview between Vaughters and Paul Kimmage before the Tour last year. Just cringe as Vaughters ducks & dives direct questions about his time at US Postal.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article4232249.ece

Also remember Discovery Channel signed Basso whilst he was under investigation in connection with Operation Puerto.

Tyler Hamilton
Roberto Heras
Manuel Beltran
Floyd Landis
Gianpaolo Mondini
Kirk O'Bee

All former US Postal/Dico riders who later tested positive, hard to believe they only started after they left the team. Indeed Beltran was one of the other riders who tested positive for EPO in the retested 1999 Tour samples. So he was on the sauce before and after he was with US Postal but not on anything whilst there, come on!!!
Pavel Padrnos was also involved in a doping investigation whilst with US Postal.

I would simply add that the guru behind Postal/Discovery all the years and, therefore, behind Armstrong's 7 Tour streak is Johan Bruyneel. Bruyneel was himself the student of a certain Maunuel Saiz, the notorious DS of Once and Liberty Segueras (on which Contador also raced) and the coach directly involved with OP. During Bruyneel's time at Once we saw the EPO explosion in pro cycling. One would have to be, consequently, incredibly naive to not put two and two together here. Of course, this is all "circumstantial," but were not in the courts. In any case, now Bruyneel is DS of Astana. The national team of a former Soviet state, which has a less than holy history in cycling and is funded by a government that thinks more about national propaganda than ethics. Doubt seriously Bruyneel has brought aby change to the situation.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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No they STILL are not arguing over whether Pharmy doped.... No I dont believe this, its not true its pretend.

This is April two thousand F-ing nine.... :eek:

Logically, the argument should be over which doctor is better (Michele Ferrari or Padilla, Indurain's doctor.) And.. How heavily Garmin is jacked.
 
As for people leaving this issue alone.
That's just another way of asking for mass denial.
Deny there is a doping problem and you multiply that problem.

Problem is, we're saying the same thing, over and over and over and over. No new news, no new information. Just the same back and forth bickering ad nauseum. And not just this thread, in multiple threads. And not just this site, multiple forums on multiple websites!

There's no way we're going to change the past. Even if Lance 1999 samples were re-tested by the Mayo clinic in the US and showed positive, a lot of people would still say it was rigged, that "the French" (clumping an entire nation together), or someone else were out to get him and tainted the samples. He could test positive today and people would say it was rigged. You could probably even find video tape from 1999 of him injecting a syringe with the letters EPO on it while wearing a USPS jersey in the team bus in France, and people would say it was faked.

There's also no news regarding his recent testing situation. We're just sifting through the same wreckage we've already looked at many times, saying all that's been said until there's something new or an official report or decision is reached.

This is why in my previous thread I brought up Repoxygen and stem-cell gene doping, and why I commented on biological testing including testosterone, wattage and hemoglobin profiles in the future. There's no way we're going to change the past, and some studying of it is fine. But we might be able to have a prudent discussion on how to keep things better in the future, without having to comb over every last fiber of every last shred of the world of Lance.
 
Exactly. Putting Lance to one side for a moment.
That's why, if the testers can't keep pace with the technical advances in cheating, there's such a strong case for retro testing.
What exactly was wrong with the idea of testing Giro samples for CERA?
After all, Ricco was caught at the Tour and it's been a peloton drug of choice, for several years.

We know it's in some of those samples and there is now an accurate test.
Yet the UCI trot out the party line and ignore this effective tool.
Surely, the threat of a suspension at anytime during a rider's future career, is an effective deterent?
 
The other one people forget about is the anti-doping charter the UCI made everyone sign. It clearly states that if you are involved in OP, connected to Fuentes, or any doping, you are libel for a year's salary, on top of normal suspension.

And yet, after all the doping scandals over the last two years, not once has the UCI tried to use this powerful tool. Why?
 
Apr 8, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Problem is, we're saying the same thing, over and over and over and over. No new news, no new information. Just the same back and forth bickering ad nauseum. And not just this thread, in multiple threads. And not just this site, multiple forums on multiple websites!

Agreed - Maybe if people spent less time cutting and pasting the same old - same old from site-site and thread-thread, and actually got out on their bikes

a) they would start to remember what a fantastic sport this is and why they started in the first place

b) they might actually get fitter and not have to resort to that extra coffee themselves.

$0.02
 
Mar 11, 2009
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mr franky andrea, his wife and the rest of the world might just disagree with you.

does anyone remember george hicup dropping 2 58kg climbers to win on alpe duez
 
Mar 11, 2009
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bikepure said:
mr franky andrea, his wife and the rest of the world might just disagree with you.

does anyone remember george hicup dropping 2 58kg climbers to win on alpe duez

Can't say as I do.....can you please provide a link?
:p
 
Mar 19, 2009
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hincapie2.jpg
 
Mar 10, 2009
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That's also the same day the contenders were sitting on Lance's wheel and Lance sat up so Hincapie could win, as in team tactics.

The beauty if that was the following year they (media) were writing him up as a Tour contender due to his great climbing abilities. Yea right, I laughed so hard I'm still aching a bit on the left side :D, oghh... my other side just started to hurt again at the thought. :p
 
Mar 12, 2009
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oh yea

ElChingon said:
That's also the same day the contenders were sitting on Lance's wheel and Lance sat up so Hincapie could win, as in team tactics.

The beauty if that was the following year they (media) were writing him up as a Tour contender due to his great climbing abilities. Yea right, I laughed so hard I'm still aching a bit on the left side :D, oghh... my other side just started to hurt again at the thought. :p

I hate those side stitches ;)

Hink was one hell of a super domestique
 
ElChingon said:
That's also the same day the contenders were sitting on Lance's wheel and Lance sat up so Hincapie could win, as in team tactics.

The beauty if that was the following year they (media) were writing him up as a Tour contender due to his great climbing abilities. Yea right, I laughed so hard I'm still aching a bit on the left side :D, oghh... my other side just started to hurt again at the thought. :p

That was the same year the police busted Fuentes and during the Tour the previously unstoppable Disco squad had trouble climbing anything taller than a speed bump. It was like watching Popovich last year.