Vaughter's Spine

[L'arriviste]

To simplify what I was saying before:

I just dont think I'm the arrogant, slimy c*ck wad you guys think I am, and sometimes reading this stuff is really not so much fun, esp when I put so much of myself into anti-doping...

Oh, and for the record: I do think the bio-passport is working. How many guys it catches is irrelevant to me, what is relevant is that climbing speeds and power outputs are well within physiological norms for the mean of the peloton nowadays. That is working, in my opinion. Talented, hard working guys that dont dope win a lot of races nowadays: Thats the bio-passport working.


JV

Thanks for coming on here and talking, JV. Good luck for next season.

 

[Anonymous]

sometimes reading this stuff is really not so much fun, esp when I put so much of myself into anti-doping...

I think wether people think you are a modern day messiah, or a slimy **** wad, respect is deserved for being the only DS prepared to come on here (under his own name) and put across your point of view while there are other ds's (and riders) who simply close their ears (or block on twitter) to anything that is said against them.

I make no secret of where I stand on this thing. I like to think there are good guys in the sport, the trouble is, the bad guys have made even the most optimistic of us cynical. Heres to the good guys.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

OK, so I am a huge Garmin fan. Gotta love Farrar and the bunch. Still, I can't help but wish JV would grow a spine.

The guy built this team around clean sport, yet when push comes to shove he can't seem to make a concrete statement about what is going on.

Would it kill the guy, who is a major player in the game, to say "This biological passport is working, and will continue to improve and catch people. The tests all work, and we can trust them."

To simplify what I was saying before:

I just dont think I'm the arrogant, slimy c*ck wad you guys think I am, and sometimes reading this stuff is really not so much fun, esp when I put so much of myself into anti-doping...

Oh, and for the record: I do think the bio-passport is working. How many guys it catches is irrelevant to me, what is relevant is that climbing speeds and power outputs are well within physiological norms for the mean of the peloton nowadays. That is working, in my opinion. Talented, hard working guys that dont dope win a lot of races nowadays: Thats the bio-passport working.


JV

That's fair enough.

But at the time I was surprised that you said the highlighted:

"I respect Walsh and his anti-doping stance. That being said, I don't like criticism of the biological passport. I understand that it isn't perfect, like any anti-doping technology, but it is the best technology that we've got right now, and I think it's something that the sport should be immensely proud of. No one has done this before and we're pushing the boundaries to the far edge. We've got to be proud of that."

If we do not criticize the Biological Passport and identify its weakness then it will not improve.

Of course since then we have had Pellizotti's case overturned and more alarmingly found out the UCI was not putting forward all suspicious cases for a hearing.

My view is it is not being utilized to its full capacity.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this with us, JV. I just hope the negative feedback doesn't ever make you cynical enough to say, hey, everyone assumes we do it, so we might as well do it and to hell with everything. All the skepticism directed at you and your team is not because of anything you say or do, if that helps; it's just a byproduct of knowing where the sport was a few years ago and not having any way to know accurately, as outsiders, to what extent it has changed.

 

[L'arriviste]

OT but since you're here, JV, please go easy on the argyle with Thor's jersey. Hell, all the rest of the jerseys too.

 

[JV1973]

That's fair enough.

But at the time I was suprised that you said the highlighted:


If we do not critise the Biological Passport and identify its weakeness then it will not improve.

Of course since then we have had Pellizotti's case overturned and more alarmingly found out the UCI was not putting forward all suspicious cases for a hearing.

My view is it is not being utilized to its full capicity.

Yes, I agree, always room for improvement. The anti-doping scientists would be the first to say this. I just dont like bashing something in the press that certainly works a whole lots better than the previous solutions...

 

[buckwheat]

bs

Yes, I have some thoughts. Gotta say this one got me...

ok:

1. Vaughters in possessive would be Vaughters' not Vaughter's.

2. regarding my statements on Contador in VeloNews, why would I say that the bio-passport is working when this case is totally unrelated to the bio-passport? The Contador case has zero to do with Bayesian statistical modeling being used in hematology. So, I dont understand why you would want me to make a statement about the bio-passport working, when this case has nothing to do with the bio_passport?
This case is complicated and will take a long time. I don't think thats an inflammatory statement, do you?

3. I was never deposed or questioned re SCA and I certainly never testified.

4. I encourage you to read the full content of the affidavit I signed regarding my IM convo with Frankie. I also encourage you to analyze it with a legal expert so that you can understand the content of the statement.

5. The affidavit and the IM convo were never submitted as evidence, as the case was closed on other basis. They were leaked, after the fact...I dont know why, but it certainly has been fun to talk about, hasnt it?

My point here, overall, is before you judge someone, maybe get all of the information, first.
Thank (some of you) for the defense of the veracity of my work and posture towards anti-doping. I hope and think that you guys will find that to be accurate, as I certainly know it is. The greater the transparency the better for my team, but I cant convince Paul Kimmage to spend his whole year living with us!
On that note, although sometimes talking to the media about every fart that is blown in the fight against doping is unproductive and actually hurts the end result, I certainly have no fear of any level of scrutiny being placed on my team by the media. None.
I see "omerta" a lot written here, which is fine, but please consider that stupid statements based on stupidity are not much better than omerta. To my thinking its useless to complain, unless you have a solution. Id rather spend my breath and effort on real, pragmatic solutions when it comes to anti-doping.
Just a few of my thoughts....However, I have a day job that I need to get on with.

I encourage you to give me a call, if you want to discuss further. Also, D-queued, I also would love to hear your thoughts on my team, but call me so I can use your information, as its apparently better than the information I have or the Catlins have. I'm not hard to get a a hold of, so go ahead, call me up, if you have the spine, that is

What a load of hot air.

Here's the state of the sport;

No one who is sentient trusts that the results of events mean anything.

Everyone who participates in the sport is suspect, YOU INCLUDED.

We have your very close associate Allen Lim going to work with Pharmstrong, and pretending Pharmstrong is clean.

We have you, making very equivocal statements that are cloaked in confusion and disguise the state of the sport.

You want to do something? Name names! Until then, Linda McMahon has more credibility than you do.

 

[Benotti69]

well done JV for coming on here and telling it straight.

any chance we could get the Hog on

 

[Anonymous]

You want to do something? Name names! Until then, Linda McMahon has more credibility than you do.

Linda McMahon as in VInce McMahons wife?

 

[L'arriviste]

Linda McMahon as in VInce McMahons wife?

Yes. AFAIK, she ran for office in the recent US elections. And failed to get elected.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes. AFAIK, she ran for office in the recent US elections. And failed to get elected.

Really Ive got some googling to do then and catching up to do

In which case comparing JV to a woman who part owns a company where 90% of the staff are on steroids and has had numerous drug related deaths over the years is a bit far fetched.

This thread is rapidly degenerating.

 

[buckwheat]

Yes. AFAIK, she ran for office in the recent US elections. And failed to get elected.

Right, and Pro Cycling is failing to be credible.

As horrendous as people like Pharmstrong and McMahon are, at least they're fighters.

Guys like Vaughters are quaking in their boots, cowering, and leaving the Andreus twisting in the wind.

If JV has done the right thing with the Grand Jury, I retract everything I said and admit I'm out of line here.

I'm hoping that's the case.

If he's testified he didn't see anything, despite his suspicions, clean cycling is done.

 

[L'arriviste]

Really Ive got some googling to do then and catching up to do

The Real Vaughters is online and you want to Google wrestling?

 

[Anonymous]

If JV has done the right thing with the Grand Jury, I retract everything I said and admit I'm out of line here.

If he's testified he didn't see anything, despite his suspicions, clean cycling is done.

Of course that is a question he cant possibly answer. That makes the accusations a little unfair as he has no way of responding. DOes it not?

 

[buckwheat]

Of course that is a question he cant possibly answer. That makes the accusations a little unfair as he has no way of responding. DOes it not?

How come Pharmstrong can come out and attack everyone in sight (fcucking trolls, LeMond is an alcoholic), and Vaughters can't say that LA has a problem telling the truth?

I'm tired of spineless people. I can tell truth to power(which gets no publicity and I have gigantic odds against me and which costs me my job) and JV can't advance the most obvious truth in the world. Get real.

 

[Oldman]

Yes. His career is still actively tied to a sport with rampant doping.

Not trying to be stupid, but there are questions even within his group.

Dave.

I think any DS is privately considering who on their roster is vulnerable. JV doesn't want to look any more clueless than the next guy on that count. As for supporting the bio-passport that would equally unsupportable. I don't think anyone kids themselves about McQuaid's vulnerability except Pat.

 

[flicker]

How come Pharmstrong can come out and attack everyone in sight (fcucking trolls, LeMond is an alcoholic), and Vaughters can't say that LA has a problem telling the truth?

I'm tired of spineless people. I can tell truth to power(which gets no publicity and I have gigantic odds against me and which costs me my job) and JV can't advance the most obvious truth in the world. Get real.

As much as I would wish it to be, not everyone thinks the way I do, life is hard!

 

[Roland Rat]

How come Pharmstrong can come out and attack everyone in sight (fcucking trolls, LeMond is an alcoholic), and Vaughters can't say that LA has a problem telling the truth?

I'm tired of spineless people. I can tell truth to power(which gets no publicity and I have gigantic odds against me and which costs me my job) and JV can't advance the most obvious truth in the world. Get real.

The key word you seem to be missing from JV's post is "pragmatic". You should look it up. It's fine shouting and wailing and leading the troops over the top, but as Blackadder showed you then tend to get yourself taken out.


JV, thanks for taking the time to put your views across.

 

[JayZee]

Hang on. I draw the line at Vaughters. He’s a great man. None of you have any idea what’s done for the anti-doping movement. We should remember he’s anti-doping not anti-Lance. His involvement at the SCA trial was very small. All that he was questioned on was if he saw doping during Armstrong’s 5th win. Which of course he didn’t. He also provided an avadavat that the IM with Frankie was more “social gossip” than fact which is also true. JV has spoken many times to ASO, the UCI and WADA about doping. He’s provided more than enough information to them to combat doping. Just because he doesn’t speak to the press about doesn’t mean he not doing something. How many times do we complain when someone spills there guts to the press. JV’s a good man. We can thank him for a lot. Take your mind back to 2006. The sport was truly FU. At the time to set up a clean Pro-Tour team was madness. But he did it and look at them now.

Well put. I think JV is the perfect example of someone trying to change the sport from within, which is about the only way it is going to change. Frankly I wish LeMond would have taken a little more of this approach, but I don't think that is in his DNA. Anyone know what happened to his once announced role with Garmin (or whatever it was called at the time). I guess in the end you may need both types to truly effect change. I am grateful that JV is involved in the sport.

 

[buckwheat]

As much as I would wish it to be, not everyone thinks the way I do, life is hard!

WTF does that mean?

Pathetic.

Just tell the frigging truth and don't be afraid.

How much more fundemental can it get?

or

Don't tell the truth and have WWE..

 

[Anonymous]

How come Pharmstrong can come out and attack everyone in sight (fcucking trolls, LeMond is an alcoholic), and Vaughters can't say that LA has a problem telling the truth?

I'm tired of spineless people. I can tell truth to power(which gets no publicity and I have gigantic odds against me and which costs me my job) and JV can't advance the most obvious truth in the world. Get real.

Because lance has allies. Lance could say that he was bigger than jesus, and he would still get invites to race, invites to talk, money for cancer, tv interviews, books written about him, Lance, McQuad, commentars like Liggett, writers, cycling magazines, websites, all of them are tied up in his little empire.

If JV came out and publicly said what he may or may not think about certain situations, riders, or people who would support him. Would CN print it and risk losing advertising from RS, would the UCI back him up, or would he quickly be an outcast, every garmin breakaway chased down, race invites dry up. Take a guess.

its easy for us to say what we think. Most of us hide behind anonymity.

 

[buckwheat]

Well put. I think JV is the perfect example of someone trying to change the sport from within, which is about the only way it is going to change. Frankly I wish LeMond would have taken a little more of this approach, but I don't think that is in his DNA. Anyone know what happened to his once announced role with Garmin (or whatever it was called at the time). I guess in the end you may need both types to truly effect change. I am grateful that JV is involved in the sport.

I'm completely against this attitude. Change cannot come from within.

If you don't understand the following, all is lost for you.

Letter from Birmingham Jail (ext)
By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

 

[Anonymous]

I'm completely against this attitude. Change cannot come from within.

If you don't understand the following, all is lost for you.

Letter from Birmingham Jail (ext)
By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

Martin Luther King was murdered for his views. Are you suggesting that Vaughters spills all and then takes a .22 to the head?

 

[flicker]

How come Pharmstrong can come out and attack everyone in sight (fcucking trolls, LeMond is an alcoholic), and Vaughters can't say that LA has a problem telling the truth?

I'm tired of spineless people. I can tell truth to power(which gets no publicity and I have gigantic odds against me and which costs me my job) and JV can't advance the most obvious truth in the world. Get real.

The waters are muddied my friend. I used to hate Vaughters also, but the biological passport is an excellent tool for leveling the playing field and making sure people do not die.

I know you want perfection but this is a major sport involving money and advertising.

You want this perfection from Lance, Vaughters and the UCI. It will not happen.

Maybe you could reform the sport and the OLYMPICS. When I saw what the OLYMPICS were all about pro-cycling did not look so bad....

In the end just keep a hatin...

 

[Anonymous]

**** me, I almost agree with Flicker