Vaughter's Spine

[Roland Rat]

**** me, I almost agree with Flicker

Me too. Be a gent and pass me that .22 would you?

 

[Boeing]

OK, so I am a huge Garmin fan. Gotta love Farrar and the bunch. Still, I can't help but wish JV would grow a spine.

The guy built this team around clean sport, yet when push comes to shove he can't seem to make a concrete statement about what is going on.

Would it kill the guy, who is a major player in the game, to say "This biological passport is working, and will continue to improve and catch people. The tests all work, and we can trust them."

Instead, we get some wishywashy statement about rider x and why this is a complicated case.


Any thoughts?

I was hoping this would be a fashion police thread. Dude dresses to the 9's. so he thinks

although thumbs down to his T-Necks and sport coat in July

 

[JRTinMA]

Because lance has allies. Lance could say that he was bigger than jesus, and he would still get invites to race, invites to talk, money for cancer, tv interviews, books written about him, Lance, McQuad, commentars like Liggett, writers, cycling magazines, websites, all of them are tied up in his little empire.

If JV came out and publicly said what he may or may not think about certain situations, riders, or people who would support him. Would CN print it and risk losing advertising from RS, would the UCI back him up, or would he quickly be an outcast, every garmin breakaway chased down, race invites dry up. Take a guess.

its easy for us to say what we think. Most of us hide behind anonymity.

If this is true the sport is doomed.

What JV has to say publicly or not will not effect the sport, the sport is full of DS, owners and riders willing to do anything to get paid, keep sponsors and be adored by fans. The Pharmstrong case will not do a thing to clean up cycling, just look at the vuelta, I agree in the sense that JV has nothing to gain by yelling from the pulpit. If he can change anything he can do it from within. What has Lemond received for hounding LA? Nothing but grief.

 

[Anonymous]

If this is true the sport is doomed.

What JV has to say publicly or not will not effect the sport, the sport is full of DS, owners and riders willing to do anything to get paid, keep sponsors and be adored by fans. The Pharmstrong case will not do a thing to clean up cycling, just look at the vuelta, I agree in the sense that JV has nothing to gain by yelling from the pulpit. If he can change anything he can do it from within. What has Lemond received for hounding LA? Nothing but grief.

Well no, but saying certain things publicly would see him ostrecised and turned into a Lemond figure who battles to change things from outside.

 

[buckwheat]

Wrong!

Because lance has allies. Lance could say that he was bigger than jesus, and he would still get invites to race, invites to talk, money for cancer, tv interviews, books written about him, Lance, McQuad, commentars like Liggett, writers, cycling magazines, websites, all of them are tied up in his little empire.

If JV came out and publicly said what he may or may not think about certain situations, riders, or people who would support him. Would CN print it and risk losing advertising from RS, would the UCI back him up, or would he quickly be an outcast, every garmin breakaway chased down, race invites dry up. Take a guess.

its easy for us to say what we think. Most of us hide behind anonymity.

Bro, I'm anonymous here because what I say here doesn't have much affect. I WAS NOT ANONYMOUS AT MY JOB AT AN ICONIC CORPORATION WHERE I CALLED THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD WHO IS A BUSINESS LEGEND AND DEMANDED CHANGES.

These clowns suspended me for two weeks WITH PAY, and because they knew I was correct, did everything in their power to undermine me, and eventually succeded, by blaming a debilitating back injury on ME.

They couldn't get rid of me legitimately, but did you ever try to fight a corporation with Billions in profits?

Letter from Birmingham Jail (ext)
By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

 

[Boeing]

Ever hear the phrase "hit a nerve"?

well Team Sky hit an artery with his candid reply.

damn....


word


buck, I feel for you, kinda

 

[buckwheat]

The waters are muddied my friend. I used to hate Vaughters also, but the biological passport is an excellent tool for leveling the playing field and making sure people do not die.

I know you want perfection but this is a major sport involving money and advertising.

You want this perfection from Lance, Vaughters and the UCI. It will not happen.

Maybe you could reform the sport and the OLYMPICS. When I saw what the OLYMPICS were all about pro-cycling did not look so bad....

In the end just keep a hatin...

Hate?

*** edited by mod ***

Vaughters is weak. I don't hate anybody. Stop with your Pharmstrong promoting "hater" lingo.

 

[andy1234]

Hate?

*** edited by mod ***
Vaughters is weak. I don't hate anybody. Stop with your Pharmstrong promoting "hater" lingo.

You are one intense dude.

 

[buckwheat]

You are one intense dude.

I was a conciliatory pu$$y earlier in life.

I learned my lesson.

We're all gonna die someday.

I don't want to be one of the rats who's trying to abandon the sinking Titanic.

 

[MacRoadie]

You are one intense dude.

"You're all worthless and weak!"

 

[Boeing]

I was a conciliatory pu$$y earlier in life.

I learned my lesson.

We're all gonna die someday.

I don't want to be one of the rats who's trying to abandon the sinking Titanic.

well we have established that you are indeed a rat then. thanks for sharing

 

[buckwheat]

*** edited by mod ***

 

[andy1234]

I was a conciliatory pu$$y earlier in life.

I learned my lesson.

We're all gonna die someday.

I don't want to be one of the rats who's trying to abandon the sinking Titanic.

You need a weekend retreat with Yoda.
That'll sort you out.

 

[buckwheat]

well we have established that you are indeed a rat then. thanks for sharing

Uncomprehending on your part. My condolences.

JV survived in the pro wrestling equivalent of cycling. Congratulations!

 

[buckwheat]

You need a weekend retreat with Yoda.
That'll sort you out.

Bro, your quips make no sense as to what I'm saying.

You keep having your respect for dopers and attacking LeMond from anonymity.

Your reasoning skills are apparently as strong as your cycling.

 

[buckwheat]

"You're all worthless and weak!"

That's a good analogy?

 

[andy1234]

Bro, your quips make no sense as to what I'm saying.

You keep having your respect for dopers and attacking LeMond from anonymity.

Your reasoning skills are apparently as strong as your cycling.

Oh man, you just insulted my cycling. That's just mean.

Come to think of it, your intensity and anger remind me of Lance....

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Buckwheat - as much as I enjoy many of your comments I believe you went too far in your comments re JV.

First off - on here, he is another poster or contributor, so he should be shown the same respect as per the rules of insulting other users.

But more importantly - as someone who wants (to fight for) change in this sport as you do, then insulting JV or saying his opinion is 'hot air' is counterproductive - as I don't see JV engaging with us any time soon.

I appreciate him coming on here - and I appreciate what he is trying to do within the sport as he obviously has passion for the sport.

But what do you expect him to do - and indeed what can he practically do?

JV has set up his own team - that is the only thing he has any real power and control over. He does not run the sport or other teams.
Also he is a businessman, running a multi-million dollar entreprise, he is also a employer to 70+ people - so he has resposibilities to himself and others.

Who is he supposed to name? And how far would he get in Pro Cycling if he had?

 

[Escarabajo]

I always appreciate when a DS come here and discuss with us cycling matters. Thanks JV.

Having said that, the jury is still out there on the Lim hiring and maybe some questions about some of his riders. The only think that bothers me really is the Lim issue.

I still think he is the best in finding talent and still has some decent morals. Garmin is the team that I have been cheering for in the Tour lately in absence of my Colombian riders. Maybe if he hires one for next year I'll cheer for his team harder.

Last but not least, I also appreciate Buckwheat and others that defend their point of view so vehemently. We always need to see the faces of the coin. Otherwise arguments would be a moot point. Of course, in this case I don't really agree with Buckwheat because talking openly and attacking others on doping is hardly going to fix anything.

Thanks.

 

[buckwheat]

Oh man, you just insulted my cycling. That's just mean.

Come to think of it, your intensity and anger remind me of Lance....

That was stupid of me. Sorry.

I do think you're too easy on proven dopers and I think (I may be wrong) you believe LeMond is in the list of dopers.

If so, that's just wrong.

 

[Benotti69]

In the end just keep a hatin...

it isn't hating. but you know that flickie dont you.

 

[Anonymous]

 

[buckwheat]

I always appreciate when a DS come here and discuss with us cycling matters. Thanks JV.

Having said that, the jury is still out there on the Lim hiring and maybe some questions about some of his riders. The only think that bothers me really is the Lim issue.

I still think he is the best in finding talent and still has some decent morals. Garmin is the team that I have been cheering in the Tour lately in absence of my Colombian riders. Maybe if he hires one for next year I'll cheer for his team harder.

Last but not least, I also appreciate Buckwheat and others that defend their point of view so vehemently. We always need to see the faces of the coin. Otherwise arguments would be a moot point. Of course, in this case I don't really agree with Buckwheat because talking openly and attacking others on doping is hardly going to fix anything.
Thanks.

What do you suggest?

You have to fight for what you believe in. Not just meekly be quiet and hope the right thing is done.

Did you happen to read the Letter from Birmingham Jail?

If MLK Jr. could stand up in a much more severe situation with much heavier odds and consequences, surely JV can stand up. LeMond did.

The reason we find ourselves in the place we find ourselves is because of the cowardice of people who should be standing up but are remaining quiet.

 

[Anonymous]

What do you suggest?

You have to fight for what you believe in. Not just meekly be quiet and hope the right thing is done.

Did you happen to read the Letter from Birmingham Jail?

If MLK Jr. could stand up in a much more severe situation with much heavier odds and consequences, surely JV can stand up. LeMond did.

The reason we find ourselves in the place we find ourselves is because of the cowardice of people who should be standing up but are remaining quiet.

Lemond had nothing really to lose, arguable the same could be said of MLK.

 

[Escarabajo]

One last point.

IMHO, I agree with JV that the Bio Passport works. Only if the UCI does not protect anybody.