Veganism

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .

Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly.

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.

Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing?

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .

Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly.

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.

Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing?

I must be one of the few people in the world who has never liked bacon, so becoming vegan was fairly easy!

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .

Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly.

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.

Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing?

It definitely is. For genuine Christians, fighting off the temptation of bacon is very easy (okay I speak for myself, lol). And I've done it for a long time even though it tasted good and I was no flexitarian then. Only I was afraid of fat. Ketchup, however, I never could. Disgusting !

By the way, end of the Lent and I've lost 3kg (83.5 to 80.5 for 200cm). Going crazy, lol, never knew how it could be so hard for people to lose weight. I can loseweight without deliberately wishing it.

 

[daddy-o]

Congratulation on having a decent vegan discussion. I'd like to see it a little heavier on the "how to" side, like a recipe a bachelor would use, but you guys have made a fun time with the moral and health arguments.

I, for one, am vegan a few days a week, mostly salmon otherwise but I eat most any meat occasionally. I know enough about the vegan diet that you can live on french fries and coca cola and still be a vegan, not that I recommend it. But the vegan diet is really easy to follow and almost impossible to adhere to!

 

[aphronesis]

How to in what sense?

 

[daddy-o]

Like I wrote, mostly recipes a bachelor would use, quick, easy, tasty, easy clean up, the less intervention the better.

For instance, I have a rice/grain cooker because I like grains but I don't like paying attention to the pot.

I make tofu taste great by letting it drain under pressure all day, slicing it and then marinating it for, like, days, and then cooking it or even eating it raw.

As for following a vegan diet, it's super easy: Eat grains, beans, vegetables, fruit and any other food that doesn't have a hint of any animal product. Read the ingredient and nutrition labels. As for adhering to a vegan diet in an environment where animal products are used to prepare almost every food, after decades of eating animal products, after a lifetime of associating the smells and tastes of animal products with happy social occasions... as for that, good luck and lots of strength!

That's the sense of how to I mean.

 

[aphronesis]

Buy a high level juicer, eat all kinds of fruit and veg. Miso.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re:

Agree on the high level juicer. Emphasis on high level. You might think they all make juice, and get caught up in good reviews on Amazon, but I've owned five in my lifetime, and regret leaving my $250 stainless Jack LaLanne juicer behind in a move across the country, falsely remembering my lower-quality Breville before it was okay and I could replace the good LaLanne eventually with a lower end LaLanne that was newer or similar to the Breville. Big mistake when I did eventually buy. Cheaper juicers are less efficient, clog more, have wetter pulp, etc. All brands.

If you're looking for a high speed juicer (a little better on fruits, but can still juice veggies even leaves) here's the best juicer I ever owned:

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Lalanne-PJP-Stainless-Steel-Electric/dp/B0018Q7LCK/ref=sr_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1459443891&sr=1-5&keywords=jack+lalanne+juicer

If you're thinking you really want more veggies, and want to juice things like wheatgrass or spinach, and still some juice from fruits too, then go with a mastication juicer. This one from Omega seems outstanding, though I don't own it:

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-NC800-HDS-Generation-Nutrition/dp/B00CIU93TE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459444147&sr=8-1&keywords=omega+NC800

I haven't owned them all, of course, but my experience is the same. Save up, and buy something good. And whatever you buy, please read the instructions, and do some research online about juicing. Also, read the reviews with a grain of salt.

I'd also recommend a high level blender, like a Vita Mix or Breville. Yes, upwards of $500 at times. A good compromise is a JTC Omni, which has the same horsepower, though the jar and blade aren't quite the same. Still, you can obliterate almost anything in this. The guy at 3 Blenders knows a lot about blending:

http://3blenders.com/

I make tofu taste great by letting it drain under pressure all day, slicing it and then marinating it for, like, days, and then cooking it or even eating it raw.

Curious what you marinate it in. I've had mixed results doing this.

 

[daddy-o]

Marinade is thin, rice vinegar, maybe balsamic, olive oil, spices. A caesar dressing is a decent comparison but add some water, a little.

Any thoughts on the Nutri-Bullet?

I think it's a good concept. 100% of the vegetable is consumed. Just don't beat them to death, y'know.

I have a method for using that device: Put these in the large cup: 2 frozen vege servings, 1 frozen fruit servings (use the per-serving weight on the nutrition label. The weights are almost always my rule of thumb 85g/veges, 140g/fruits) Add a nice strong hot tea to the frozen fruit in the cup up to the fill line. I use herbal teas usually, Celestial Seasonings or something on sale. Run the 'Bullet for less than 30 seconds. Add some more tea to thin it out. Clean up with cold water.

The hot tea melts the veges, the veges cool the tea.

That's what I'm talking about being bachelor easy.

The tea provides a spice. I've tried regular spices but they're too strong.

 

[daddy-o]

And MISO - two thumbs up.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .

Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly.

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.

Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing?

It definitely is. For genuine Christians, fighting off the temptation of bacon is very easy (okay I speak for myself, lol). And I've done it for a long time even though it tasted good and I was no flexitarian then. Only I was afraid of fat. Ketchup, however, I never could. Disgusting !

By the way, end of the Lent and I've lost 3kg (83.5 to 80.5 for 200cm). Going crazy, lol, never knew how it could be so hard for people to lose weight. I can loseweight without deliberately wishing it.

Oh please, it was a joke! FYI I only eat bacon/pork a couple times a year. Self control is easy. The religious aspect of eating or not eating pork could be discussed in the religion thread.

 

[aphronesis]

Omegas are good all round juicers . Fantastic value for the money. Green Star is a step up. From there you can plump for a super angel or norwalk.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

I use and can recommend an "Oscar" juicer - http://www.oscarjuicers.co.nz

My go-to juice these days is : - apple, beetroot, carrot, ginger & lemon - love it and drink it most days.

Moving to something like a Norwalk for home use is a big step in terms of cost, space and commitment to juicing......i considered it for a while but have been very happy with the Oscar for home / daily use.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

Oh please, it was a joke! FYI I only eat bacon/pork a couple times a year. Self control is easy. The religious aspect of eating or not eating pork could be discussed in the religion thread.

We both understood it was a joke, I think.

However I don't see why I shouldn't bring the religious element here because in my opinion the Christian religion leads to an (at least) vegetarian diet if not vegan and besides you already did bring that element here:

Animals are not humans (most would disagree with me on this point , But I would say it is because animals don't have souls. They are not made in the image of God.) Animals have been given to us to enjoy, to help us with work (in our modern society this reason is used far less), and to eat. There is nothing morally wrong with eating animals.

Where is it said that animals have been given us to enjoy and to eat? You are twisting the words of the Gospels to fit with your own habits and individual interests. It's atheism, darwinism and liberalism that promote meat eating. Some kind of a survival of the fittest. Christians mainly eat bread and believe that "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Likewise Vegans who trash the Christian religion are hypos, in my opinion.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Likewise Vegans who trash the Christian religion are hypos, in my opinion.

Can you expand on that? Genuinely interested.

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

Oh please, it was a joke! FYI I only eat bacon/pork a couple times a year. Self control is easy. The religious aspect of eating or not eating pork could be discussed in the religion thread.

We both understood it was a joke, I think.

However I don't see why I shouldn't bring the religious element here because in my opinion the Christian religion leads to an (at least) vegetarian diet if not vegan and besides you already did bring that element here:

Animals are not humans (most would disagree with me on this point , But I would say it is because animals don't have souls. They are not made in the image of God.) Animals have been given to us to enjoy, to help us with work (in our modern society this reason is used far less), and to eat. There is nothing morally wrong with eating animals.

Where is it said that animals have been given us to enjoy and to eat? You are twisting the words of the Gospels to fit with your own habits and individual interests. It's atheism, darwinism and liberalism that promote meat eating. Some kind of a survival of the fittest. Christians mainly eat bread and believe that "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Likewise Vegans who trash the Christian religion are hypos, in my opinion.

Since "real" christians are vegans, would bbq'd christian be considered a vegan meal?

 

[aphronesis]

Re:

I use and can recommend an "Oscar" juicer - http://www.oscarjuicers.co.nz

My go-to juice these days is : - apple, beetroot, carrot, ginger & lemon - love it and drink it most days.

Moving to something like a Norwalk for home use is a big step in terms of cost, space and commitment to juicing......i considered it for a while but have been very happy with the Oscar for home / daily use.

Yeah, the overall gain from something like an Oscar to a Norwalk is mostly at the level of luxury. It's not really necessary.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

It's atheism, darwinism and liberalism that promote meat eating. Some kind of a survival of the fittest. Christians mainly eat bread and believe that "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Likewise Vegans who trash the Christian religion are hypos, in my opinion.

The comedy really never stops here, does it. Just wow.

That is (and this is saying something) one of the craziest things I've read on these pages in some time.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Oh please, it was a joke! FYI I only eat bacon/pork a couple times a year. Self control is easy. The religious aspect of eating or not eating pork could be discussed in the religion thread.

We both understood it was a joke, I think.

However I don't see why I shouldn't bring the religious element here because in my opinion the Christian religion leads to an (at least) vegetarian diet if not vegan and besides you already did bring that element here:

Animals are not humans (most would disagree with me on this point , But I would say it is because animals don't have souls. They are not made in the image of God.) Animals have been given to us to enjoy, to help us with work (in our modern society this reason is used far less), and to eat. There is nothing morally wrong with eating animals.

Where is it said that animals have been given us to enjoy and to eat? You are twisting the words of the Gospels to fit with your own habits and individual interests. It's atheism, darwinism and liberalism that promote meat eating. Some kind of a survival of the fittest. Christians mainly eat bread and believe that "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Likewise Vegans who trash the Christian religion are hypos, in my opinion.

Echoes I responded to your post in the God and Religion thread. I hope that's okay...I didn't want to derail this thread.

 

[Echoes]

Why be so formalist? We are talking about food, so it has a place here. I don't feel like going back to that thread again ...

Timothy 4:1-5 does not explicitly say that animals are created as food. It just says we cannot forbid anyone to eat but what is food? Paul explains in Corinthians 8:13 that he had to quit eating meat in order not to scandalise his "brothers", thereby assuming that early Christians were vegetarians (confirmed by several sources) and probably so was Jesus (not just pesco-vegetarian as He's sometimes referred to).

Why the anti religious vegans are hypocrites is just because if care for animals is really their ideal, their attacks against religion is at the same time an attack against the main obstacle to mass consumption of in particular meat. It's just a mixture of hypocrisy and stupidity, there. The 1970's which were anti-religious years through and through were also years of a consumerist boom because the war and privation years of the forties and seventies increased Euro appetite tenfold. So gluttony was the standard, as illustrated by the horrible though interesting film La grande abbuffata by Marco Ferreri. Churches emptied but supermarket filled in. Nobody wanted to hear anymore about the Lent, about fasting, about meat prohibition on Fridays, etc. So as a Catholic I have no moral lesson to receive from atheistic vegans, on the contrary. Until the sixties/seventies common people rarely ate meat. It was not just because they could not afford it, it also was a habit. When they ate meat, it was often out of necessity, because there are regions like here in Belgium where nothing grows in winter. Nowadays, everybody wants his own hamburger, his hot dog, his underdone steak which here on the Continent is more the result of an Americanization of the ways of life than of tradition.

Religious people defend a natural order based on common good. Atheist opposed to it an order based on individualism or general interest (which is the sum of every particular interest) in which society is made for everyone to satisfy their endless needs and desires in absolute freedom. No wonder that in such an order, meat consumption and animal slaughtering gets huge. In order for veganism to prevail massively it needs a religious revival, a counter-revolution. A restoration of traditions, of authority, if only at school because it has to start with education, kids have to understand that they cannot always get what they want. And a restoration of discipline and fighting against oneself.

 

[aphronesis]

Amen brother. More notes from the underground. Crack those windows for a bit of air and light. The crusades are over and you're still ranting about an inbred Euro cult.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

Amen brother. More notes from the underground. Crack those windows for a bit of air and light. The crusades are over and you're still ranting about an inbred Euro cult.

I wonder if the Ancient Aliens were vegetarians.

 

[rhubroma]

Bizarre historical revisionism above when European princes and upper-clergymen where chronically afflicted with gout, caused by excessive red meat, beer and red wine consumption.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

Amen brother. More notes from the underground. Crack those windows for a bit of air and light. The crusades are over and you're still ranting about an inbred Euro cult.

I wonder if the Ancient Aliens were vegetarians.

Well they didn't abduct all the cows.

 

[Jspear]

Why be so formalist? We are talking about food, so it has a place here. I don't feel like going back to that thread again ...

Timothy 4:1-5 does not explicitly say that animals are created as food. It just says we cannot forbid anyone to eat but what is food? Paul explains in Corinthians 8:13 that he had to quit eating meat in order not to scandalise his "brothers", thereby assuming that early Christians were vegetarians (confirmed by several sources) and probably so was Jesus (not just pesco-vegetarian as He's sometimes referred to).

Why the anti religious vegans are hypocrites is just because if care for animals is really their ideal, their attacks against religion is at the same time an attack against the main obstacle to mass consumption of in particular meat. It's just a mixture of hypocrisy and stupidity, there. The 1970's which were anti-religious years through and through were also years of a consumerist boom because the war and privation years of the forties and seventies increased Euro appetite tenfold. So gluttony was the standard, as illustrated by the horrible though interesting film La grande abbuffata by Marco Ferreri. Churches emptied but supermarket filled in. Nobody wanted to hear anymore about the Lent, about fasting, about meat prohibition on Fridays, etc. So as a Catholic I have no moral lesson to receive from atheistic vegans, on the contrary. Until the sixties/seventies common people rarely ate meat. It was not just because they could not afford it, it also was a habit. When they ate meat, it was often out of necessity, because there are regions like here in Belgium where nothing grows in winter. Nowadays, everybody wants his own hamburger, his hot dog, his underdone steak which here on the Continent is more the result of an Americanization of the ways of life than of tradition.

Religious people defend a natural order based on common good. Atheist opposed to it an order based on individualism or general interest (which is the sum of every particular interest) in which society is made for everyone to satisfy their endless needs and desires in absolute freedom. No wonder that in such an order, meat consumption and animal slaughtering gets huge. In order for veganism to prevail massively it needs a religious revival, a counter-revolution. A restoration of traditions, of authority, if only at school because it has to start with education, kids have to understand that they cannot always get what they want. And a restoration of discipline and fighting against oneself.

In 1 Corinthians 8:13 Paul doesn't say he stopped eating meat. He says "IF" eating food causes my brother to stumble I will never eat meat again. You can look at the earlier verses to see the context.

But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. (1 Corinthians 8:8-9)

The eating of meat in and of its self isn't sin. What is sin is when we stumble brothers or sisters. For example, If I'm eating at a restaurant with a Seven Day Adventist, I'm not going to order a slab of pork. That would be wrong.

Also Paul is talking about eating meat in 1 Timothy. Teachers have never preached to abstain from vegetables. When talking about abstaining from foods it's always in the context of meat.