Velo d’Or 2023

[Scarponi]

Giro/Veulta double with Tirreno and Catalunya (with mountains and points jersey) doesn’t win? Probably the best season ever to come 2nd lol

 

[yaco]

Tour was a prep race for Van Der Poel, and he get it right. 1 or 2 stages wouldn't change much, if any. And when he feels he needs a couple of Tour stages, he will get them, believe me.

The TDF parcours did not suit a rider with MVP's characteristics.

 

[houtdffan]

Why not use an objective system? I had a scale proposed in the all time ranking thread, but it could also be used for determining the best rider of the year, taking all subjectivity out of it

Tiers below and points breakdown

Tier 1: Tour (30/22/17/13/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 2: Giro and Vuelta (25/20/16/12/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 3: Olympic RR and worlds RR (20/15/12/9/7/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 4: MSR/RVV/PR/LBL/Lombardia/PM/TA/CDD/TDS (15/12/9/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 5: Olympic TT/ World TT/ Strade Bianchi (12/10/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 6: All other world tour races (10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 7: GT stages (3/2/1)
Tier 8: PN/TA/CDD/TDS stages (2/1)
Tier 9: All other world tour stages (1)

 

[tobydawq]

Why not use an objective system? I had a scale proposed in the all time ranking thread, but it could also be used for determining the best rider of the year, taking all subjectivity out of it

Tiers below and points breakdown

Tier 1: Tour (30/22/17/13/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 2: Giro and Vuelta (25/20/16/12/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 3: Olympic RR and worlds RR (20/15/12/9/7/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 4: MSR/RVV/PR/LBL/Lombardia/PM/TA/CDD/TDS (15/12/9/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 5: Olympic TT/ World TT/ Strade Bianchi (12/10/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 6: All other world tour races (10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 7: GT stages (3/2/1)
Tier 8: PN/TA/CDD/TDS stages (2/1)
Tier 9: All other world tour stages (1)

In a Vélo d'Or award there should be a much bigger gap from 1st to 2nd and I would only give points to podiums. If I would only do it objectively.

And your tiers are laughable anyway.

 

[bNator]

Why not use an objective system? I had a scale proposed in the all time ranking thread, but it could also be used for determining the best rider of the year, taking all subjectivity out of it

Tiers below and points breakdown

Tier 1: Tour (30/22/17/13/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 2: Giro and Vuelta (25/20/16/12/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 3: Olympic RR and worlds RR (20/15/12/9/7/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 4: MSR/RVV/PR/LBL/Lombardia/PM/TA/CDD/TDS (15/12/9/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 5: Olympic TT/ World TT/ Strade Bianchi (12/10/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 6: All other world tour races (10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 7: GT stages (3/2/1)
Tier 8: PN/TA/CDD/TDS stages (2/1)
Tier 9: All other world tour stages (1)

What is this - some kind of magic that puts Remco in the lead? 🤣

 

[SHAD0W93]

What is this - some kind of magic that puts Remco in the lead? 🤣

Off the top of my head I think it goes; Vinge, Pog, Roglic, MVDP, and Evenepoel with this distribution currently.

 

[houtdffan]

What is this - some kind of magic that puts Remco in the lead? 🤣

LOL

Remco wouldn't have even won last year under this system. Pog would have won fairly easily

 

[houtdffan]

Off the top of my head I think it goes; Vinge, Pog, Roglic, MVDP, and Evenepoel with this distribution currently.

Pog would be leading easily under my proposed system

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pog would be leading easily under my proposed system

That he is, I misread at first and thought all WT stage races were starting at 10 points.

Quick rundown for everyone I thought would have scored quite a bit of points:
Pog 118
Vinge 81
MVDP 71
Evenepoel 66
Rog 62
WVA 59
Pedersen 54
Adam 53
Almeida 47
Simon 38
Philipsen 37
Laporte 34
Geraint 26
Mohoric 23

 

[Berniece]

MVDP has the biggest and most impressive wins, only Vingegaard might take it if he wins the Vuelta

 

[bNator]

LOL

Remco wouldn't have even won last year under this system. Pog would have won fairly easily

I know - it was a joke...

On a more serious note and no longer a reply to your post - Velo d'Or is very tricky to get right. I can see Pog, Vinge and MvdP winning on merit, depending on criteria. Do we reward really outstanding TDF performance? Do monuments and WC count more? Or should we consider versatilty mixed with outstanding performances?

I would personally still go with Pog, simply based on the fact that he is almost doing what MvdP is doing in classics and is almost doing what Vinge is doing in stage races while the later duo are pretty far from doing what Pog is doing in their opposite spectrum.

But since he didn't win last year, he certainly won't win this year either so it's most likely MvdP vs Vinge in the end.

 

[Red Rick]

I know - it was a joke...

On a more serious note and no longer a reply to your post - Velo d'Or is very tricky to get right. I can see Pog, Vinge and MvdP winning on merit, depending on criteria. Do we reward really outstanding TDF performance? Do monuments and WC count more? Or should we consider versatilty mixed with outstanding performances?

I would personally still go with Pog, simply based on the fact that he is almost doing what MvdP is doing in classics and is almost doing what Vinge is doing in stage races while the later duo are pretty far from doing what Pog is doing in their opposite spectrum.

But since he didn't win last year, he certainly won't win this year either so it's most likely MvdP vs Vinge in the end.

Taking Pogacar right now is just turning it into "who's the best rider in the world" and not "who had the best achievements this year" and you can just blindly give it to Pog every year.

 

[bNator]

Taking Pogacar right now is just turning it into "who's the best rider in the world" and not "who had the best achievements this year" and you can just blindly give it to Pog every year.

I have no problems with MvdP or Vinge taking it, they both deserve it. But so does Pog - his achievements this year when listed in a single sentence are impressive even if TDF was a bit of a letdown in the end.

It's an interesting situuation. 3 excellent cyclists with excellent results this year and whoever they pick, the other two will always have a strong case that they were wrongfully overlooked... Not to mention the possibility of Roglic winning the Vuelta and having no chance of winning it despite taking 2 GTs.

 

[Blanco]

Pog would be leading easily under my proposed system

Than it is not objective, cause Pog is not the best rider of the year so far...
Being objective is not that easy...

As things stand right now:
1.Van Der Poel
2.Vingegaard
3.Pogacar
4.Roglic
5.Evenepoel

Vinge will take it if he wins Vuelta
Roglic will take it if he wins Vuelta and Lombardia
Remco will take it if he wins WC ITT, Vuelta and Lombardia
Pogacar won't win it, despite the fact that he is the most versatile and will have the most number of wins.

 

[Red Rick]

Than it is not objective, cause Pog is not the best rider of the year so far...
Being objective is not that easy...

It's a standardized system, so it's objective.

The point distribution is just terrible.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Is it just a road award or does it encompass all disciplines? I hadn't even been considering Mathieu's cross worlds victory in any of this.

It is journalists voting, so no real way of knowing what sways them. And I assume they are not held accountable for their votes, so they can make allowance for anything they wish.

Do we know anything of what the voting panel is: how many, how specialised to any discipline, what distribution of nationalities?

I see that in the Vero d'Or francais (I'm guessing voters are from the same list, but only the French journo's) second place last year went to Loana Lecomte, an MTB specialist, so I guess that it is not strictly road only, although that has dominated, enormously.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Why not use an objective system? I had a scale proposed in the all time ranking thread, but it could also be used for determining the best rider of the year, taking all subjectivity out of it

Tiers below and points breakdown

Tier 1: Tour (30/22/17/13/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 2: Giro and Vuelta (25/20/16/12/10/8/6/4/2/1)
Tier 3: Olympic RR and worlds RR (20/15/12/9/7/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 4: MSR/RVV/PR/LBL/Lombardia/PM/TA/CDD/TDS (15/12/9/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 5: Olympic TT/ World TT/ Strade Bianchi (12/10/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 6: All other world tour races (10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1)
Tier 7: GT stages (3/2/1)
Tier 8: PN/TA/CDD/TDS stages (2/1)
Tier 9: All other world tour stages (1)

This is actually pretty objective by your standards.

I thought you would give much higher points for the TT's

 

[Escarabajo]

Giro/Veulta double with Tirreno and Catalunya (with mountains and points jersey) doesn’t win? Probably the best season ever to come 2nd lol

What about Tour/Vuelta double with Pais Vasco and Dauphine wins. That is the highest. But not both can win the Vuelta. So let's wait.

 

[Panda Claws]

I wouldn't count Foss out yet either.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It aint that close if Vingegaard wins the Vuelta IMO.

 

[Peter von]

Why not use an objective system? I had a scale proposed in the all time ranking thread, but it could also be used for determining the best rider of the year, taking all subjectivity out of it

Because it’s more fun arguing. 🤣

Also you have a thing where winning Flanders + Lombardia is more impressive than Lombardia + LBL.

But then I guess we can just argue over the point’s distribution.

 

[houtdffan]

I know - it was a joke...

On a more serious note and no longer a reply to your post - Velo d'Or is very tricky to get right. I can see Pog, Vinge and MvdP winning on merit, depending on criteria. Do we reward really outstanding TDF performance? Do monuments and WC count more? Or should we consider versatilty mixed with outstanding performances?

I would personally still go with Pog, simply based on the fact that he is almost doing what MvdP is doing in classics and is almost doing what Vinge is doing in stage races while the later duo are pretty far from doing what Pog is doing in their opposite spectrum.

But since he didn't win last year, he certainly won't win this year either so it's most likely MvdP vs Vinge in the end.

yep. velo d'or needs to go to who had the best overall season. Pog, has been close to VDP in one day races, is far better in stage races. Thus, he's had the overall better season.

Remco has the 1 day results, but not yet the stage results due to the covid at the giro. Not sure he can overtake Pog without doing something goofy at the vuelta like winning 6-8 stages

 

[Breezy1985]

The Velo d'Or isn't about contenders. It's about winners.

What was Pogacar's number 1 priority this year? The Tour. He didn't win it.

I think the best rider of the year should actually be a rider all year. Not just one race

 

[fbjim]

It could be argued one day specialists have become the new bias of cycling followers.

It's just hard for me to reconcile Van der Poel with 'best rider of the year' after his TdF in which he did one job only: enforcer for Philipsen.

Don't get me wrong & I don't say this to be controversial or argue with anyone because VdP really is a phenomenal champion, no question, it's just he barely existed in the Tour. I have a personal bias towards GT specialists, I admit, but I think stage races in general (including one week races) get pretty hard done by cycling press & followers versus the razzmatazz of a one day showdown like the Glasgow Worlds.

VDP was visible at the Tour as a deluxe leadout guy, though I get what you mean.

I do think the Tour is important because it has the strongest startlist of any race of the year, possibly including Worlds, but I will always be slightly biased against it because of the political influence it has on the rest of cycling.

 

[Escarabajo]

@ Rackham: 1 week races in this forum have literally no value. It is my perception.