"VENDETTA" ITALIANA in VALVERDE BANNED.

[ALBERTIÑO]

Alejandro has banned unfairly by c.o.n.i., an institution incompetent to know this isue. Coni has not right to know about valverde isue . The banned is only italian lands and so that he can be in tdf 09 . This is a "vendetta" of italians autorities for the basso banned. This is unfair. A realy crap for a clean cycling. Please suport alejandro is this nightmare. He never cheat or try to cheat. All the failed banned is based on suspictions .

 

[Jasper]

A realy crap for a clean cycling.

Babelfish delivers once again

 

[BikeCentric]

Yes it seems that it's politically motivated that CONI would go after a top Spanish rider. But this is likely because Spanish courts are sitting on the Puerto case while top Italian riders got suspended (Basso). Valverde is just a pawn in a much larger power struggle that is going on right now. It's sad for his fans that he's become the sacrificial lamb but perhaps with doping cases being pursued in the courts we may see a cleaner future.

 

[ingsve]

Alejandro has banned unfairly by c.o.n.i., an institution incompetent to know this isue. Coni has not right to know about valverde isue . The banned is only italian lands and so that he can be in tdf 09 . This is a "vendetta" of italians autorities for the basso banned. This is unfair. A realy crap for a clean cycling. Please suport alejandro is this nightmare. He never cheat or try to cheat. All the failed banned is based on suspictions .

Just face the facts...You can't dispute DNA evidence no matter how hard you try. This case is far more clear than any positive doping test could ever be in my opinion. It shows without a doubt that Valverde was involved with organized doping with Fuentes no matter what the motivation for testing him was.

 

[Leopejo]

Yes it seems that it's politically motivated that CONI would go after a top Spanish rider. But this is likely because Spanish courts are sitting on the Puerto case while top Italian riders got suspended (Basso). Valverde is just a pawn in a much larger power struggle that is going on right now. It's sad for his fans that he's become the sacrificial lamb but perhaps with doping cases being pursued in the courts we may see a cleaner future.

No I don't think it's politically motivated, nor about a power struggle. It's just that they seize every opportunity to get a cleaner sport, regardless of nationality of riders involved - all keeping it legal, or so they say. France is doing the same, Germany too.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

Just face the facts...You can't dispute DNA evidence no matter how hard you try. This case is far more clear than any positive doping test could ever be in my opinion. It shows without a doubt that Valverde was involved with organized doping with Fuentes no matter what the motivation for testing him was.

Dude,
exactly.
If DNA shows that is Valverde's and if the blood came from the Fuentes stash, he should be given 2 years.
If Valverde would have grown some balls, it would have been easier for him to come clean when basso did. By now, he would be racing back again.

 

[Escarabajo]

Alejandro has banned unfairly by c.o.n.i., an institution incompetent to know this isue. Coni has not right to know about valverde isue . The banned is only italian lands and so that he can be in tdf 09 . This is a "vendetta" of italians autorities for the basso banned. This is unfair. A realy crap for a clean cycling. Please suport alejandro is this nightmare. He never cheat or try to cheat. All the failed banned is based on suspictions .

I am not sure you are going to get some support from this "Against Doping" Forum. As for me is concerned, whether it was politically influenced or not I am happy to see Valverde (Pitti) punished. We need to clean the sport regardless of the nationality.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Tend to agree with BikeCentric. Really, he should have been suspended THREE YEARS AGO. Now, why he's become the one single rider CONI (and the UCI) has gone after regarding OP is beyond me, and not really very just.

 

[Leopejo]

Tend to agree with BikeCentric. Really, he should have been suspended THREE YEARS AGO. Now, why he's become the one single rider CONI (and the UCI) has gone after regarding OP is beyond me, and not really very just.

Maybe because he's the one single rider they could put their hands on.

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

I agree to suspend al the cheaters but the jury procedure to encause this was wrong. This is about of law and procedure and italian autorities has not right to failed in this order because op is an isue of spain autorities. Italians hasnt proves to base all this, why lance hasnt been banned by french authorities after know he was positive in 1999?? Why uci hasnt say nothing about this isue and suspend him in all countries? Valverde lawyers are going to apeal this fail based in coni has not power to encause valverde, also in a falsificate proves to banned alejandro. All this come from basso issue ;

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It's going to be interesting to see how CAS sorts this out. Also if and when they do, as appeals usually take months and months. But in 2006 when the UCI tried to suspend him before the World's, CAS ruled quickly in his favor.

Also curious to see if he'll ride in the Vuelta this year if his CAS appeal hasn't been heard.

Also curious to hear ASO's reaction, as they are a majority owner of the Vuelta.

When this started with CONI matching DNA, they said Valverde was the start, and they intended on going one-by-one. Yet, they have done none of the sort, and fully concentrated on Valverde. So, what's next? Plenty more blood bags to match, and plenty more names in Fuentes book, including one with the initials "AC" and a rider nicknamed "Cowboy".

 

[Anonymous]

I agree to suspend al the cheaters but the jury procedure to encause this was wrong. This is about of law and procedure and italian autorities has not right to failed in this order because op is an isue of spain autorities. Italians hasnt proves to base all this, why lance hasnt been banned by french authorities after know he was positive in 1999?? Why uci hasnt say nothing about this isue and suspend him in all countries? Valverde lawyers are going to apeal this fail based in coni has not power to encause valverde, also in a falsificate proves to banned alejandro. All this come from basso issue ;

oh well.. the italians didnt have the power to pop to spain, nick some blood, compare it with valverdes dna and prove that he was doping or planning to dope..

well, he must be clean then..

regardless of the technicalities, wether or not the italians where allowed to do what they have done, it doesnt matter cos they have the evidence.. are you suggesting that a doper should escape a ban in a technicality...

one things for sure.. dont think there will be many italian teams offered wild cards for the vuelta..

national pride is fine.. (im assuming your spanish) but defending the indefensible is kinda pointless..
and to be fair to the italians.. the spanish where not exactly making much progress where they

 

[Jasper]

Sorry, couldn't resist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlE2X9g7h80

 

[Bala Verde]

Just face the facts...You can't dispute DNA evidence no matter how hard you try. This case is far more clear than any positive doping test could ever be in my opinion. It shows without a doubt that Valverde was involved with organized doping with Fuentes no matter what the motivation for testing him was.

Just to play the devil's advocate (I don not really doubt that he doped/intended to dope)....

1) This is to assume that the blood and the DNA, which obviously match and are Valverde's, is still enriched, so as to be able to prove doping. If the blood was enriched the centrifuge method, then how long does the increased red blood cell count remain detectible? (This is also to assume that Fuentes did not add foreign products to his blood). The only thing the connection between blood and DNA proves, is that his blood was at Fuentes's lab. But if the blood does not contain any traces (after 3 yrs isn't that likely?) anymore, they can't even prove doping.

2) Besides, they can only prove 'intent to use doping'. He never got caught in competition. Basso got bluffed and squealed like a pig when the allegations where made. If he had denied charges, what could they prove? IMO nothing... To illustrate:

If you have a loaded gun at home, does that mean you intend to kill someone? So the next step is to try for possession of a loaded gun, (if that's illegal due to gun laws), but again Valverde, nor Basso were even in possession of 'enriched blood'. They could very well argue that they entrusted Fuentes with blood for analysis, and that he had unvoluntarily enriched it...

This does not mean race organizers would not exclude him from competing, but I don't see how they could prove anything...

 

[LugHugger]

I agree to suspend al the cheaters but the jury procedure to encause this was wrong. This is about of law and procedure and italian autorities has not right to failed in this order because op is an isue of spain autorities. Italians hasnt proves to base all this, why lance hasnt been banned by french authorities after know he was positive in 1999?? Why uci hasnt say nothing about this isue and suspend him in all countries? Valverde lawyers are going to apeal this fail based in coni has not power to encause valverde, also in a falsificate proves to banned alejandro. All this come from basso issue ;

Frankly, I think that you have some cheek to claim that there is ANY 'law and procedure' being followed in Spain. That's risible.

Irrespective of whether CONI's action is politically motivated (and who could blame them after years of procrastination and hand wringing by the Spanish authorities), if Piti's OP blood and their DNA samples match, he's guilty under the terms of CONI competition and therefore banned. Good on them. I hope that they are as forthcoming about testing last year's samples too. The faster that solid prosecutions are made then the quicker we can move this sport forwards and stop looking over our shoulders.

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

Hey people. Valverde hasnt won all his triumph dopped. He never was positive in a controll. Everydoy know about cycling he is a very good rider. Dont blame on him. All this come from op, 5 years ago. When he was in another team, kelme,: Why css has to pay this crap.?? Valverde send his dna to match any proves in op. He has said several times that this is rubish and never take nothing. If valverde were dopped why always is in the 3rd week race as tired?.
The way he race and win is not for a dopped cyclist. He has talent and is strong. Dont say nonsense if there isnt any substancial evidences: The prove about "pity" blood bag is no enough, in order of law, to retire a cyclist.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

@topic starter: Unfairly? I don't think so. It's bad enough Spanish justice and spanish cycling is protecting Valverde and not giving away the evidence that can put him away for years now...very bad, tells us a lot about the ethics in Spain. Glad at least the Italians do something about it

 

[ElChingon]

Then this started with CONI matching DNA, they said Valverde was the start, and they intended on going one-by-one. Yet, they have done of the sort, and fully concentrated on Valverde. So, what's next? Plenty more blood bags to match, and plenty more names in Fuentes book, including one with the initials "AC" and a rider nicknamed "Cowboy".

Well now with the blood passports, there there should be no limit on starting a DNA Test match with the Blood Bags. Time to connect the dots!

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

Sorry, couldn't resist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlE2X9g7h80

JAJA , Trust you to say something tactless!

 

[Bala Verde]

@topic starter: Unfairly? I don't think so. It's bad enough Spanish justice and spanish cycling is protecting Valverde and not giving away the evidence that can put him away for years now...very bad, tells us a lot about the ethics in Spain. Glad at least the Italians do something about it

As a matter of fact it is only Spanish judiciary. The cycling federation asked for a release of the OP blood bags with Piti (and prob other spanish riders) but the judge denied that request and said he could not comply since they are still part of criminal investigation/proceedings. It was in El pais and or El Mundo, both rather respectable Spanish np

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

just to play the devil's advocate (i don not really doubt that he doped/intended to dope)....

1) this is to assume that the blood and the dna, which obviously match and are valverde's, is still enriched, so as to be able to prove doping. If the blood was enriched the centrifuge method, then how long does the increased red blood cell count remain detectible? (this is also to assume that fuentes did not add foreign products to his blood). The only thing the connection between blood and dna proves, is that his blood was at fuentes's lab. But if the blood does not contain any traces (after 3 yrs isn't that likely?) anymore, they can't even prove doping.

2) besides, they can only prove 'intent to use doping'. He never got caught in competition. Basso got bluffed and squealed like a pig when the allegations where made. If he had denied charges, what could they prove? Imo nothing... To illustrate:

If you have a loaded gun at home, does that mean you intend to kill someone? So the next step is to try for possession of a loaded gun, (if that's illegal due to gun laws), but again valverde, nor basso were even in possession of 'enriched blood'. They could very well argue that they entrusted fuentes with blood for analysis, and that he had unvoluntarily enriched it...

This does not mean race organizers would not exclude him from competing, but i don't see how they could prove anything...

i thought the same. Thaks for the ilustration

 

[Jasper]

JAJA , Trust you to say something tactless!

Okay then, childlover

 

[Crommy]

As a matter of fact it is only Spanish judiciary. The cycling federation asked for a release of the OP blood bags with Piti (and prob other spanish riders) but the judge denied that request and said he could not comply since they are still part of criminal investigation/proceedings. It was in El pais and or El Mundo, both rather respectable Spanish np

Want to hear how CONI got hold of the bloodbags?

The judge who had blocked every other attempt to get hold of the bloodbags was on vacation

And it's not really a vendetta. Valverde deserves the ban. The blood bags at Fuentes prove it, no way they were being used for anything else.

Good work CONI, now get more of those blood bags and get these lot:

From the Guardia Civil's report of Document 3:


En el documento 3 se observan marcados de distinta forma los nombres de los corredores: Dariuz BARANOWSKY; Josefa BELOKI; Ginpaolo CARUSO; Alberto CONTADOR; Allan DAVIS; David ETXEBARRÍA; Igor GONZÁLEZ DE GALDEANO; Roberto HERAS; Jorg JAKSCHE; Isidro NOZAL; Sergio PAULINHO; Nuno RIBEIRO; Luis León SÁNCHEZ; Michele SCARPONI; Marcos SERRANO y Ángel VICIOSO.


And from Document 31:

En el reverso del documento 31 se localizan unas anotaciones manuscritas con el título “INDIVIDUALIZACIÓN” en el que se identifican a distintos corredores del equipo LIBERTY-SEGUROS WÜRTH por sus iniciales: R. H. (Roberto HERAS), M. S. (Marcos SERRANO), J. B. (Joseba BELOKI), I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ), A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO), J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE), A. D. (Alan DAVIS), L. (sin identificar), A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR) .

 

[ElChingon]

I think most of us already connected those dots a while ago, why they never prosecuted anyone on the list except a select short list is beyond me.

Although, I have always said they (the ones on the list that got off) paid for their removal from being prosecuted and the others did not pay up.

Again, my thoughts on the why and why not as other than that explanation I cannot come up with another one.

 

[Bala Verde]

Want to hear how CONI got hold of the bloodbags?

The judge who had blocked every other attempt to get hold of the bloodbags was on vacation

:

Hey we are still talking Spain here