Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Jspear

Jspear

Feb 23, 2014
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maxmartin said:
can you read my previous post? this is italian paper

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/12-...ava-tappa-gerardmer-salita-801215709056.shtml
Click to expand...

I don't read Italian and I don't know if google translate is accurate...so I won't speak about that article. But cyclingquotes says that Nibali said he chose the wrong gear. It wasn't a mechanical issue, he was the issue. The simple solution would have been to change gears (assuming he wasn't in his easiest.) Really I think what happened was he was beginning to crack. Luckily for Nibali, AC ran out of road.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
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So what is the excuse on Nibali this Tour?

- Pave decimated the field,
- Contador peaked too early,
- Everybody was cold because of the rains, so that only sharks can survive.

Last year was:

- Cadel is a nobody,
- Uran is a nobody
- Papi is a nobody,

Nibali is very good. Plain and simple.

I am not really his fan but you have to give to someone what is fair.

Well, the fight just started but he looks so strong. The only thing that can scare him is the news of Menchov! LOL.
 
M

movingtarget

Aug 5, 2009
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Rollthedice said:
I don't understand the exuberance of Contador supporters and the worry regarding Nibali here. He was glued to Contador's wheel on a very nasty albeit short ascent until the last few meters while putting time into the other contenders. This is what controlling a race from the point of view of the leader means. He is not a better climber than Contador and never will be and besides Bertie is at Froome level this tour. So what's the problem? Sure that Contador will ride away from him, maybe even on Monday but Nibali has to defend two and a half minutes and speculate every possibility for a surprise. If he's healthy and focused it is doable.
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The exuberance of Contador supporters would be about Astana's performance. It's clear that Nibali won't have much support in the real mountains. Astana and Movistar were mediocre. Getting the yellow jersey so early won't help Astana at all. Nibali himself looks pretty solid.
 
gregrowlerson

gregrowlerson

Aug 6, 2010
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Escarabajo said:
So what is the excuse on Nibali this Tour?

- Pave decimated the field,
- Contador peaked too early,
- Everybody was cold because of the rains, so that only sharks can survive.

Last year was:

- Cadel is a nobody,
- Uran is a nobody
- Papi is a nobody,

Nibali is very good. Plain and simple.

I am not really his fan but you have to give to someone what is fair.

Well, the fight just started but he looks so strong. The only thing that can scare him is the news of Menchov! LOL.
Click to expand...

Good points. An excellent all around GC rider. Superb palmares.
 
cineteq

cineteq

May 20, 2009
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paparazzo59

Jul 13, 2014
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"he couldn't keep up" makes you feel better because you're a Contador supporter but the evidence is that Nibali couldn't sprint to the finishing line as much as Contador did simply because he found himself stuck on too high a gear. That's a little mistake, nothing more. Throughout the climb Nibali looked very comfortable and he sounded relaxed when interviewed on Italian Tv a few minutes after crossing the line.
 
pigoonse

pigoonse

Apr 16, 2014
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maxmartin said:
"The same rawness that makes Nibali great is the same feeling that makes him vulnerable. He’s a wonderfully poetic rider in that sense."

A wonderful article about Nibali, it has many little interesting details in it.

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...italys-latest-star_335782#bAaHQTe9kaemOJrZ.99
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That is a very good link, thanks Maxmartin. He describes and explains why I am a fan of Nibali on a bike. Particularly agree with this: "Even if he is not riding to win, he is riding to entertain." And, "He can transform a stage, he is creative and brave."

If he can summon the strength, he will make stage 9 interesting ;)
 
Ripper

Ripper

Sep 14, 2009
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Jspear said:
I don't read Italian and I don't know if google translate is accurate...so I won't speak about that article. But cyclingquotes says that Nibali said he chose the wrong gear. It wasn't a mechanical issue, he was the issue. The simple solution would have been to change gears (assuming he wasn't in his easiest.) Really I think what happened was he was beginning to crack. Luckily for Nibali, AC ran out of road.
Click to expand...

And people/fans will see what they want to see. Some seem to think it is a chink in the armor of Nibs, and it might be. Of course, Bert was doing a finish line sprint and Nibs even admits what we know - he is not explosive. But I don't think Bert ran out of road ... it was the last sprint.
 
maxmartin

maxmartin

May 19, 2011
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Ripper said:
And people/fans will see what they want to see. Some seem to think it is a ***** in the armor of Nibs, and it might be. Of course, Bert was doing a finish line sprint and Nibs even admits what we know - he is not explosive. But I don't think Bert ran out of road ... it was the last sprint.
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because he though he was going to win the stage

"I thought I was going to win the stage, that's why I eased a little as I prepared for the sprint to the finish, but then I looked up as the line was coming and saw that it said the gap was two minutes. That's when I realised there was still someone ahead of us."
 
SafeBet

SafeBet

Sep 2, 2011
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I'll need to rewatch the final later, those 100 my in the end looked odd. Nibbles looked ok the whole climb and then completely cracked. He didn't even try to get out of the saddle, nothing. Did he go into the red too early? He was probably trying to send a message to Berto, but I guess it backfired. Now Berto knows that if he digs deep, Nibali will probably bury himself to stick to his wheel and then blow.

That said, it's true that this climb didn't suit him much. In similar stages in the past he has often suffered and lost more time but it's not like this type of climbs suit Contador much either. If he's smashing the field here, you gotta worry about what's gonna happen in the big mountains. Nibali is a fighter and reads races perfectly in normal conditions but it's gonna be a hell in the coming days. If I'm Martinelli I tell him to find his pace and stick to that, like Uran did at the Giro. If Contador is at 2011 level there's nothing to do, it's that simple.

As for Astana, I don't think they were that bad considering the effort they've put in the first stages of this Tour. Boots looked fine to me. Birdsong probably had an off day. I didn't really understand making Kangert wait for him, should that tell me they are not fully committed to Nibbles? Or they are hoping Bird can keep his GC placement for tactical moves in the future?
 
Publicus

Publicus

Mar 17, 2009
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maxmartin said:
can you read my previous post? this is italian paper

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/12-...ava-tappa-gerardmer-salita-801215709056.shtml
Click to expand...

I didn't and I don't think it matters. Nibali apparently made BOTH statements. I've watched the finale again (1130 here on the West Coast) and I'm not buying the wrong gear story as the sole reason he was gapped at the finale. I'm also not making a mountain out of a molehill and claiming that this is somehow proof positive of what the future holds for subsequent stages. One stage, does not a Tour de France make.

Today will give us some more insight as to the lay of the land. Monday even more so.

EDIT: If I'm looking at this photo correctly, Nibali didn't HAVE any more gears to drop down to later on in the stage (he's already at his smallest ratio (compare that to Contador's)). EDIT #2: That being said, it's not clear where they are on the final climb and doesn't preclude him shifting up to a higher gear.

304-PIC479245278.jpg
 
lenric

lenric

May 19, 2014
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The excuse of Nibali's fans is that yesterday's climb wasn't much of his style... which is kinda odd, because if yesterday wasn't THAT steep nor THAT hard, then why in the hell would he be better on a climb harder than yesterday's? No logic here.

Contador will decimate Nibali, which is bad, because it's not good for the show.
 
W

webbie146

Oct 17, 2011
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lenric said:
The excuse of Nibali's fans is that yesterday's climb wasn't much of his style... which is kinda odd, because if yesterday wasn't THAT steep nor THAT hard, then why in the hell would he be better on a climb harder than yesterday's? No logic here.

Contador will decimate Nibali, which is bad, because it's not good for the show.
Click to expand...

It had nothing to do with the gradient. Whether it's 10, 15, or 22% nibali does fine. It's the length. To short, to explosive. He struggled with this kind of finish at last year Vuelta a lot. This does not say anything about how a rider performs on a long climb.
 
SafeBet

SafeBet

Sep 2, 2011
17,246
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lenric said:
The excuse of Nibali's fans is that yesterday's climb wasn't much of his style... which is kinda odd, because if yesterday wasn't THAT steep nor THAT hard, then why in the hell would he be better on a climb harder than yesterday's? No logic here.
Click to expand...

You won't find many steeper climbs in the Tour actually.

I'll admit the whole theory of Nibali not being suited to short and explosive climbs is not clear cut though. He's got multiple top10 placements in the Ardennes. And he was the best on the Muro di Sant'Elpidio last year.
 
W

webbie146

Oct 17, 2011
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SafeBet said:
You won't find many steeper climbs in the Tour actually.

I'll admit the whole theory of Nibali not being suited to short and explosive climbs is not clear cut though. He's got multiple top10 placements in the Ardennes. And he was the best on the Muro di Sant'Elpidio last year.
Click to expand...

The ardennes are different though. Going into the ardennes he would follow a training program aimed at shorter intense efforts. That's not the kind of training he does before a GT.
 
whittashau

whittashau

Sep 2, 2010
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I think he deliberately goes into classic races a few kg heavier than he does for GTs. Hence maybe being more explosive in classics
 
lenric

lenric

May 19, 2014
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webbie146 said:
It had nothing to do with the gradient. Whether it's 10, 15, or 22% nibali does fine. It's the length. To short, to explosive. He struggled with this kind of finish at last year Vuelta a lot. This does not say anything about how a rider performs on a long climb.
Click to expand...

Contador's more explosive. On a long climb, supposing an attack from Contador, Nibali's left behind, because he's less explosive, thus he'll loose time, because Contador won't stop. So it's the same thing. It's good for Nibali that Froome isn't here, otherwise he'd loose minutes to both Contador and Froome.

But I hope I'm wrong, because Nibali is one of my fave riders, and it would be good for the show.
 
maxmartin

maxmartin

May 19, 2011
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"Today could not have gone better. We wanted to set a hard pace to clean out the overall classification of people who could cause us problems in the future by getting into breaks," Contador explained after stage 8.

Great response from Astana today. LOL
 
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