Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Noibali can't win on this forum. If he wins due to an opponent's misfortune, it is discredited. If he doesn't win he's considered a lesser GT rider.

What? If any rider wins primarily through the misfortune of others, then he won primarily through the misfortune of others. If any rider is beaten, for reasons other than some freak bad luck, then it is evidence that the rider is at least as of that moment a lesser rider at that discipline. Nibali isn't singled out in that regard. That said, I do think that people tend to give riders too much credit for winning by being the strongest physically and not enough for winning because of being smart ,brave and ruthless. Nibali, the wily old dog, does get short changed there.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I absolutely didn't want Dumoulin to win this Giro, but as usual whenever Nibali has verbal diarrhea i get happier and happier that he's losing.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I absolutely didn't want Dumoulin to win this Giro, but as usual whenever Nibali has verbal diarrhea i get happier and happier that he's losing.

So, Tom Dumoulin says that he'll be very happy if Nibali and Quintana loose their podium spots as if he is already the Giro winner, Nibali answers and he is the bad guy.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm rooting for Dumoulin here, but he's definitely the one spraying crap now. Orally this time, though he's lucky it's only the figurative kind

 

[dfromdub]

Re:

Do we have any italian version on rai?

There's his interview from the Processo. He said something along those lines but it was a bit more articulate than that twitter quote.
I am not sure if it is georestricted but usually Processos are not. It is in italian (obviously) and starts at 36:40
http://www.raiplay.it/video/2017/05/Processo-alla-Tappa-18-91439d81-fa4a-4140-a189-a1f2dc2ddff0.html

I must say that most of the journalists, especially the italian ones, do a great job in stirring him up everytime he is grumpy (which is most of the times). Journalist asks him what can he and Quintana do to put Domoulin in difficulty in the next two stages, he goes:

...
Io penso che oggi e' stato leggermente fortunato, Tom Domoulin. Perche' la tattica che avevamo in mente noi e quella che aveva in mente la Moviestar era l'ideale: abbiamo mandato avanti i nostri compagni, abbiamo cercato di fare un'azione molto forte sulla Val Gardena, pero' la discesa non era subito pronto li', c'era quella valle quindi lui e' riuscito a richiudere e li sono ripartiti nuovi giochi, senno magari la corsa poteva prendere una piega diversa. Si ritrovava dietro ad inseguire poi... Non e' semplice, come dicevo prima all'arrivo ad altri colleghi: e' una partita che si gioca giorno per giorno, e come un partita a scacchi... Non e' semplice, questo lo ho detto molte volte, questo e' un giro molto difficile
...

Here is my version of this in english:

...I think that today he was a little bit lucky, Tom Domoulin. Because the tactic we (us and Moviestar) had in mind was ideal: we sent forward our team-mates, we tried to put a strong attack on the Val Gardena, but the descent wasn't there right away, there was that "valley" [look at today's profile to see what he means] so he managed to close back on us and then new games/tactics started, otherwise maybe the race could have taken a different turn. He could have been behind chasing and then... It is not simple anway, like I said before when I was at the arrival with some [of your journaist] colleagues: it's a match that we play day by day, it is like a chess game... It is not simple, I said it many times, this is a very hard giro...

he says a lot of other things before and after which I am sure some people could misquote and misinterpret to start twitter rages etc. So I am not going into those, but as SafeBet said we wrote a bit about it in Tom's topic.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Re: Re:

So, Tom Dumoulin says that he'll be very happy if Nibali and Quintana loose their podium spots as if he is already the Giro winner, Nibali answers and he is the bad guy.

The point is that he really didn't say it (loosing the podium) like this at all.

If though, Nibali was told that Dumoulin said it like this. Well than it's kind of understandable.
Oh and, who knows how poor Nibali is translated...

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

I'm rooting for Dumoulin here, but he's definitely the one spraying crap now. Orally this time, though he's lucky it's only the figurative kind

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously guys, you should read the whole interview. Nibali showed great respect for Major Tom.

But he's too proud to just let Tom's comments unanswered.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I'm rooting for Dumoulin here, but he's definitely the one spraying crap now. Orally this time, though he's lucky it's only the figurative kind

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously guys, you should read the whole interview. Nibali showed great respect for Major Tom.

But he's too proud to just let Tom's comments unanswered.

He shouldn't let that go unanswered. I like when athletes speak their minds. Class is overrated, and false humility is just crap

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

So, Tom Dumoulin says that he'll be very happy if Nibali and Quintana loose their podium spots as if he is already the Giro winner, Nibali answers and he is the bad guy.

The point is that he really didn't say it (loosing the podium) like this at all.

If though, Nibali was told that Dumoulin said it like this. Well than it's kind of understandable.
Oh and, who knows how poor Nibali is translated...

I'm sorry but I heard Tom's interview with RAI and he clearly said he hoped Nibs and Quintana would lose their podium spots, that it would be nice. He also said they should both fear Pinot since he's a much better TTer (which is almost laughable).

This is what Nibali was told, which makes his reaction understandable, given his personality.

 

[Ataraxus]

Nibali the paesan e un uomo d'onore.
His comments reminded me of him being pissed off by Contador in Zoncolan 2011 because allegedly he had toyed with him during the ascent and hadn't shown enough respect to him.
Such a tough racer, not so much out of the saddle.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Re: Re:

So, Tom Dumoulin says that he'll be very happy if Nibali and Quintana loose their podium spots as if he is already the Giro winner, Nibali answers and he is the bad guy.

The point is that he really didn't say it (loosing the podium) like this at all.

If though, Nibali was told that Dumoulin said it like this. Well than it's kind of understandable.
Oh and, who knows how poor Nibali is translated...

I'm sorry but I heard Tom's interview with RAI and he clearly said he hoped Nibs and Quintana would lose their podium spots, that it would be nice. He also said they should both fear Pinot since he's a much better TTer (which is almost laughable).

This is what Nibali was told, which makes his reaction understandable, given his personality.

The point is the reason he said it, I'm not contesting that he said it at all. He made a rather polemic but clear statement, that he doesn't understand what the point is in only following his wheels, and if they ride like that, he'd be happy if they'll loose the podium for it. That's a disagreement one should be able to cope with in my opinion. - He did not say that he thinks he's already on the podium, or that he expected them to help him only for the sake of doing so.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Nibali the paesan e un uomo d'onore.
His comments reminded me of him being pissed off by Contador in Zoncolan 2011 because allegedly he had toyed with him during the ascent and hadn't shown enough respect to him.
Such a tough racer, not so much out of the saddle.

Can dish it out but can't take it.

 

[46&twoWheels]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I don't think Nibali is pissed off at Dumoulin (who by the way started the confrontation with those statements)

He's pissed off at the organizers who, with 4000m in height difference weren't able to organize a decent,stimulating route

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I don't think Nibali is pissed off at Dumoulin (who by the way started the confrontation with those statements)

He's pissed off at the organizers who, with 4000m in height difference weren't able to organize a decent,stimulating route

While the stage was incredibly underwhelming, I doubt he was able to do any difference on say, Fedaia + Sella or whatever options they had. Quintana, maybe, it would at least be much more of race. Pontives sucks as a climb, the road to Pontives sucks even more.

 

[hrotha]

Nibali is all "damn, we did everything perfectly today but we were so unlucky that the gods conspired to flatten the mountains so that Dumoulin could get back", which ignores that Dumoulin got back during the climb and, most importantly, that it was a weak sauce attack where they spent 99% of the time following the wheels of their domestiques/mercs because they DIDN'T do it perfectly, rather the opposite - they completely screwed up the timing and subsequently failed to adapt. That's why I said he saw a completely different race.

I still kinda love Nibbles but he has a huge mouth and as soon as his legs stop backing it up he'll become the next Samu.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

The point is the reason he said it, I'm not contesting that he said it at all. He made a rather polemic but clear statement, that he doesn't understand what the point is in only following his wheels, and if they ride like that, he'd be happy if they'll loose the podium for it. That's a disagreement one should be able to cope with in my opinion. - He did not say that he thinks he's already on the podium, or that he expected them to help him only for the sake of doing so.

I'm perfectly fine with Tom's statements. I stated multiple times on this forum that I love athletes being outspoken, but if you're fine with his comments, you must be fine with Nibali's ones as well.

And just for the sake of it, full translation of Nibali's interview. Keep in mind that he's not the most articulate speaker (even in italian), so at times I needed to interpret what he wanted to say.

Explaining why he didn't want to talk as soon as the race ended: my mood has changed. Stage was very hard so I was a bit nervous and tired. I just wanted to take a shower, get dry clothes not to fall sick. Then when I'm relaxed it's fine to have an interview.

On Tom's comments: I don't care about the podium, doesn't make a difference to be second, third, whatever. He must be careful as well, because if we let the other get away he could lose the podium himself. He's being a bit cocky. It's good to talk like that when you are in Milano, after winning the Giro.
Tom is strong. Even on the final climb he had everything under control. Quintana and I tried to attack him, we're second and third in GC so we have to focus on him. He can't ask us to close down attacks by the fifth in GC, otherwise we took him on a carriage to Milan, we can shake his hands and say thank you. I think he should keep racing as he's doing, he's a great rider, but he shouldn't be so cocky (I've never been like that). You know how karma is, you gotta be careful.
Right now he's the strongest. He has proven it, even today. Good job.

On today's stage: I think Tom was a bit lucky today, because the tactic we (and Movistar) had in mind was ideal: we sent forward our team-mates, we tried to put a strong attack on the Val Gardena, but the descent wasn't there right away, there was that "valley" [look at today's profile to see what he means] so he managed to close back on us and then new games/tactics started, otherwise maybe the race could have taken a different turn. He could have been behind chasing and then... It is not simple, like I said: it's a match that we play day by day, it is like a chess game. It is not simple, I said it many times, this is a very hard giro. Many riders keep getting back in GC.

On tomorrow's stage: another 190 km. As Nairo said, we need to keep trying. Tom has been the strongest thus far. We can only say bravo to him. Nothing else.

On his relationship with Tom: setting aside what he said, I need to say he's a very good guy, he's honest, he speaks with everybody. When I won the stage he came to congratulate me and the same I did when he got the maglia rosa. No frictions between us. When we race, we all get mean, we're different and we need to focus on our race. When we don't race we can talk to eachother, we're cool.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

Nibali is all "damn, we did everything perfectly today but we were so unlucky that the gods conspired to flatten the mountains so that Dumoulin could get back", which ignores that Dumoulin got back during the climb and, most importantly, that it was a weak sauce attack where they spent 99% of the time following the wheels of their domestiques/mercs because they DIDN'T do it perfectly, rather the opposite - they completely screwed up the timing and subsequently failed to adapt. That's why I said he saw a completely different race.

I still kinda love Nibbles but he has a huge mouth and as soon as his legs stop backing it up he'll become the next Samu.

It was the first time I saw Nibali so passive and waiting while he needed to be aggressive. It was very weird. Nibali and Quintana should have gone again when TD caught them.

 

[dfromdub]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Good Job SafeBet

Too bad some users will still read it the way they want to ignoring any context.

 

[Sciocco]

OOOP wrong thread.

I hope Nibali goes insane on Grappe

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Re: Re:

The point is the reason he said it, I'm not contesting that he said it at all. He made a rather polemic but clear statement, that he doesn't understand what the point is in only following his wheels, and if they ride like that, he'd be happy if they'll loose the podium for it. That's a disagreement one should be able to cope with in my opinion. - He did not say that he thinks he's already on the podium, or that he expected them to help him only for the sake of doing so.

I'm perfectly fine with Tom's statements. I stated multiple times on this forum that I love athletes being outspoken, but if you're fine with his comments, you must be fine with Nibali's ones as well.

Yeah, but I don't disagree on this point at all. Just look at the post I responded too. I even said, as you did in the post I quoted, that if Nibali was told what you also apparently heard in Dumoulins statement, that Nibalis reaction would be understandable. I just absoulutly disagree that Dumoulins statement can be interpreted in the way Rollthedice did. I was merely trying to make that clear.
I really wasn't talking about Nibali at all. The *** do I know what he was told, and how his reaction was translated. So thanks for the translation btw!

 

[IndianCyclist]

Comments are ok but giving ~ 1 min for free when you worked so hard is stupidity. Fine even if he does not care about the podium but when your team has worked so hard for you, you must return something back. Its no longer about yourself but for the team. it was only a matter of 4 k

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Comments are ok but giving ~ 1 min for free when you worked so hard is stupidity. Fine even if he does not care about the podium but when your team has worked so hard for you, you must return something back. Its no longer about yourself but for the team. it was only a matter of 4 k

You do realize this is all being said in hindsight. Had this gamble worked and Dumoulin blew up and lost minutes as a result we would be attesting to the brilliance of the strategy.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not sure I'm gonna want to watch the descent of the Monte Grappa tomorrow.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I'm not sure I'm gonna want to watch the descent of the Monte Grappa tomorrow.

He better goes crazy there.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

I'm not sure I'm gonna want to watch the descent of the Monte Grappa tomorrow.

Nibali still has some chances of winning. What a weird Giro :lol: