Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Confirmed he'll ride Ronde! I hope we'll see him in great shape in Liège, but also the races before that.

"I would like to do that, only there is the problem that the Tour of the Basque Country starts a few days later." (actually it starts the next day on 2nd of April) "There is a logistical problem for the time being to find a plane after the finish that will take me there in time. "

Sean Kelly in 1984, 1986, 1987 and 1988 in eight days rode Ronde, Pais Vasco and Roubaix.

Yeah but a) that was a different era and b) Nibali is not Kelly

Yeah Kelly never won a GT much less all 3 of them!

 

[dastott]

Kelly won the 1988 Vuelta, and should have won it in 87 too.

 

[Leinster]

He never even rode the Giro until late in his career. In an era when it was set up for flatlanders like Moser and Saronni to win it, it’s a shame Kelly was committed to Spanish sponsors like Kas and so had to ride the Vuelta.

And let’s not sell Kelly short. In 84, he was 2nd at MSR and the Ronde, then won Pais Vasco, with 3 stages, Roubaix, and Liege.

And he still has 1 more Lombardia than Nibali. And 7 more monuments overall.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Confirmed he'll ride Ronde! I hope we'll see him in great shape in Liège, but also the races before that.

"I would like to do that, only there is the problem that the Tour of the Basque Country starts a few days later." (actually it starts the next day on 2nd of April) "There is a logistical problem for the time being to find a plane after the finish that will take me there in time. "

Sean Kelly in 1984, 1986, 1987 and 1988 in eight days rode Ronde, Pais Vasco and Roubaix.

Yeah but a) that was a different era and b) Nibali is not Kelly

We are in an era where should be even easier to find a plane, it's a nonsense complain about travel problems nowadays if already thirty years ago was possible to ride in Flanders on sunday and then fly to Pais Vasco to ride the day after (and even fly back to north France at the end of the race to ride Roubaix).

 

[Brullnux]

My point was more to do with recovery and fatigue rather than logistics. Nibali's comment about planes I'm pretty sure was a way of saying that he's spectical of doing a very tough monument, and then follow it up with a hard week-long stage race. The plane was sort of a light-hearted was to say this, because I'm sure the prince has a private jet if needs be.

 

[Nirvana]

Actually was him that asked to the team management to ride the Ronde.
If he thinks it's undoable for him why asked to ride?

Anyway also Pais Vasco is a strange choice, muritos and pretty short stages are the worst for him and if i recall correctly also when he targeted Liege and Tour like in 2012 he didn't go to Pais Vasco.

 

[Rollthedice]

Slongo says it's pretty much a done deal to ride the Ronde. Hopefully some exciting spring racing ahead.

 

[Summoned]

Re:

Actually was him that asked to the team management to ride the Ronde.
If he thinks it's undoable for him why asked to ride?

Anyway also Pais Vasco is a strange choice, muritos and pretty short stages are the worst for him and if i recall correctly also when he targeted Liege and Tour like in 2012 he didn't go to Pais Vasco.

The Tour this year has a finish on the Mur de Bretagne, correct? And I think another murito-type finish as well? Perhaps having more racing on this type of finish will be good preparation for the Tour? Given the 2017 Vuelta, it definitely is something that can be a problem for Nibali, so working under race conditions to address it makes sense to me, but I am hardly expert on this sort of thing.

 

[Carols]

Re:

Kelly won the 1988 Vuelta, and should have won it in 87 too.

Wow, my Bad. I forgot that!

 

[Carols]

Re:

Slongo says it's pretty much a done deal to ride the Ronde. Hopefully some exciting spring racing ahead.

Hopefully he can top 10. That would be a great result and set him up for the pave stage in Le Tour.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

Confirmed he'll ride Ronde! I hope we'll see him in great shape in Liège, but also the races before that.

"I would like to do that, only there is the problem that the Tour of the Basque Country starts a few days later." (actually it starts the next day on 2nd of April) "There is a logistical problem for the time being to find a plane after the finish that will take me there in time. "

Sean Kelly in 1984, 1986, 1987 and 1988 in eight days rode Ronde, Pais Vasco and Roubaix.

Yeah but a) that was a different era and b) Nibali is not Kelly

We are in an era where should be even easier to find a plane, it's a nonsense complain about travel problems nowadays if already thirty years ago was possible to ride in Flanders on sunday and then fly to Pais Vasco to ride the day after (and even fly back to north France at the end of the race to ride Roubaix).

There was a rest day inbetween the races back then

Of course, Nibali is not Kelly and it's unfair to expect him to be

 

[roundabout]

Nobody is asking Nibali to ride Roubaix

 

[Nirvana]

There was a rest day inbetween the races back then

Of course, Nibali is not Kelly and it's unfair to expect him to be

No, was the same as today with Ronde on sunday and Pais Vasco starting the following day on monday.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

There was a rest day inbetween the races back then

Of course, Nibali is not Kelly and it's unfair to expect him to be

No, was the same as today with Ronde on sunday and Pais Vasco starting the following day on monday.

I'm talking about Roubaix. Pais Vasco had the two last stages both on Friday. But now split stages are forbidden so they extended the race to Saturday, leaving no room for Roubaix. I was responding to the Kelly comparison.

 

[Rollthedice]

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

Doable, but a very very hard task. He will be a favorite in Innsbruck imo, but there's some other riders with an equal chance. GT's are harder to come by for him...even when it isn't the Tour. Froome's current situation could help things...I do feel he definitely has another monument in him.

 

[topcat]

Yes and Kelly could be compared to valverde

 

[TourOfSardinia]

looking more likely now that Nibs will get a back-dated vuelta 2017

 

[Jspear]

Re:

looking more likely now that Nibs will get a back-dated vuelta 2017

It will mean nothing to him. I’m sure he’d have liked to win it on the road.

 

[Carols]

Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

A much more realistic comparison! Nibali is no Kelly and Kelly is no Nibali!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

A much more realistic comparison! Nibali is no Kelly and Kelly is no Nibali!

Comparing him with Kelly, or any of the real all time top handful of riders is just trolling. I say that as someone who admires Nibali a lot.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

A much more realistic comparison! Nibali is no Kelly and Kelly is no Nibali!

Comparing him with Kelly, or any of the real all time top handful of riders is just trolling. I say that as someone who admires Nibali a lot.

In fairness, with wins in all 3 GTs, 2 Lombardia, and podiums in LBL and MSR, Nibbles has every right to a seat at the top table himself. The comparison to Kelly falls apart for several other reasons, but quality of palmares isn’t one of them.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

A much more realistic comparison! Nibali is no Kelly and Kelly is no Nibali!

Comparing him with Kelly, or any of the real all time top handful of riders is just trolling. I say that as someone who admires Nibali a lot.

In fairness, with wins in all 3 GTs, 2 Lombardia, and podiums in LBL and MSR, Nibbles has every right to a seat at the top table himself. The comparison to Kelly falls apart for several other reasons, but quality of palmares isn’t one of them.

I agree, comparing the two does not make much sense.

Just to make an example, should we compare Nibali and Cancellara?
Or Kelly and Contador?
We are talking of completely different type of riders.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

The comparison with Kelly is nonsense. Nibali is a very succesful GT rider who has won and podiumed one day races throughout his ongoing career and this includes one monument won two times. Kelly was a very successful one day and shorter stage races rider who also has won one GT. A more suitable comparison would be with Felice Gimondi. Vincenzo needs to win in Innsbruck bag another GT and a couple of monuments and they are even. It's doable.

A much more realistic comparison! Nibali is no Kelly and Kelly is no Nibali!

Comparing him with Kelly, or any of the real all time top handful of riders is just trolling. I say that as someone who admires Nibali a lot.

In fairness, with wins in all 3 GTs, 2 Lombardia, and podiums in LBL and MSR, Nibbles has every right to a seat at the top table himself. The comparison to Kelly falls apart for several other reasons, but quality of palmares isn’t one of them.

His palmares absolutely do not belong with the top tier of all time greats. Winning all three GTs for instance sounds very impressive but it is worth a lot less than winning three Tours. As a GT rider, his main specialty, he isn’t even a contender for the top 10 of all time. When you start including undisputed greats who weren’t primarily GT GC men, like Kelly, De Vlaeminck or Van Looy, he isn’t even a contender for top 20.

The issue to assess with Nibali is if he’s in the top half dozen riders of his own period, ie where he ranks against the Contadors, Cancellaras, Boonens, Froomes of this world.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

His palmares absolutely do not belong with the top tier of all time greats. Winning all three GTs for instance sounds very impressive but it is worth a lot less than winning three Tours. As a GT rider, his main specialty, he isn’t even a contender for the top 10 of all time. When you start including undisputed greats who weren’t primarily GT GC men, like Kelly, De Vlaeminck or Van Looy, he isn’t even a contender for top 20.

The issue to assess with Nibali is if he’s in the top half dozen riders of his own period, ie where he ranks against the Contadors, Cancellaras, Boonens, Froomes of this world.

Hopefully we will be able to discuss more on the subject at the end of this year. He still rides, his career is not over yet and I bet it feels good to be the only active rider who won all three Grand Tours. Don't you think?