Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[tobydawq]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

I would guess because people are comparing the two.

 

[El Pistolero]

The only prestigious Italian race missing on his palmares is now the Strade Bianche. I hope he takes it serious some day.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

The only prestigious Italian race missing on his palmares is now the Strade Bianche. I hope he takes it serious some day.

Hope so too. But I think Strade being so early in the season right doesn't help the race in it's growth potential

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

The only prestigious Italian race missing on his palmares is now the Strade Bianche. I hope he takes it serious some day.

Hope so too. But I think Strade being so early in the season right doesn't help the race in it's growth potential

As long as Nibali will target the Giro or Le Tour in a season I'm afraid he will never be in the proper shape for Strade. The only chance to win is if in a couple of years he'll be such an Italian hero that the organizers will move Strade whenever Vincenzo wants it.

 

[Jspear]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because Nibbes won something the Versatile Valverde may never win so its time to knock him down some and talk about how there’s only one possible winner for Liege unless it’s rainy or cold or who knows what else.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

The only prestigious Italian race missing on his palmares is now the Strade Bianche. I hope he takes it serious some day.

Hope so too. But I think Strade being so early in the season right doesn't help the race in it's growth potential

As long as Nibali will target the Giro or Le Tour in a season I'm afraid he will never be in the proper shape for Strade. The only chance to win is if in a couple of years he'll be such an Italian hero that the organizers will move Strade whenever Vincenzo wants it.

Well he certainly was in proper shape in MSR, Strade is only two weeks earlier...

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Nibali the overachiever? BS. No idea on what grounds so many people here decided that Nibali isn't all that talented compared to Contador, Valverde or whoever else. Based on what? Basically seems to be a case of: "I didn't expect Nibali to have a successful career", now he has, ok, means he is an overachiever. He really isn't. The idea that a guy who keeps winning does it all on "minor" talent but lots of guts, tactical sense and luck is laughable. He is immensely talented. Of course he's been lucky too, even on Saturday. As impressive as it was how he kept away the peloton in a headwind, he ended up in front almost by accident. As he himself said in the post-race interview, he only went after Neilands to block him, to cover his attack, riding for Colbrelli. Only decided to collaborate and then go himself after he saw that he had an inexplicably big advantage over the peloton. And he's been unlucky too, Firenze and Rio. That's how it is... .but without the talent, you don't even get into the situation where you can profit from the luck or be unlucky.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Nibali the overachiever? BS. No idea on what grounds so many people here decided that Nibali isn't all that talented compared to Contador, Valverde or whoever else. Based on what? Basically seems to be a case of: "I didn't expect Nibali to have a successful career", now he has, ok, means he is an overachiever. He really isn't. The idea that a guy who keeps winning does it all on "minor" talent but lots of guts, tactical sense and luck is laughable. He is immensely talented. Of course he's been lucky too, even on Saturday. As impressive as it was how he kept away the peloton in a headwind, he ended up in front almost by accident. As he himself said in the post-race interview, he only went after Neilands to block him, to cover his attack, riding for Colbrelli. Only decided to collaborate and then go himself after he saw that he had an inexplicably big advantage over the peloton. And he's been unlucky too, Firenze and Rio. That's how it is... .but without the talent, you don't even get into the situation where you can profit from the luck or be unlucky.

Pretty much this.

Nibali is very underrated as a pure classic talent. He's not the very best when it's been an easy race before a fresh all out drag race, but if everyone's almost dead and having their eulogies written you can bet Nibali will still have something left.

 

[richo36]

He is seen as overachiever due to the fact he is not the best at anything. He’s not dominant in any one area, like valverde, froome, Sagan are. However he is probably the smartest tactically in the peloton. This is why he has now got the best palmares in the peloton (IMO in the last 20years) and is one of the most exciting riders to watch as he can’t just rely on his sprint/climbing/TT. Uses Race smarts to win on a variety of terrain.

Nibali is easily the greatest rider in the world at the moment. No one else’s palmares come close to his. Gilbert in my opinion is currently second, 3 different monuments and WC. Then I would have valverde/Sagan/froome in third. I think I could happily sort these three in any order.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I get where the fact that Nibali is an overachiever comes from. I had the same feelings a couple of years ago. The thing is what Red Rick said. Nibali has immense stamina. That's a talent.
In short easy races and the Vuelta murito finales, he often will come up short. But in the toughest races in the season, either one day or grand tour, he comes to the front. He can just keep going and have multiple attacks in his legs (which is rare, most modern riders only have 1 big attack). That's a huge strength / talent, which enables him to win so many big races. Couple that with good tactics, good bike handling and astounding mental coolness and you have a monster

 

[Oliver]

Nibali haters go away.
And stop the mess about a discussion with Valverde.

Anyway, can't wait to see him in my playground: Flanders.
I hope they find a solution for the Flanders and Vaisco situation.

I didn't expect anything from him in Flanders, he don't know the roads yet but we 'll see and he may surprise us.

 

[Rollthedice]

He is seen as overachiever due to the fact he is not the best at anything. He’s not dominant in any one area, like valverde, froome, Sagan are. However he is probably the smartest tactically in the peloton. This is why he has now got the best palmares in the peloton (IMO in the last 20years) and is one of the most exciting riders to watch as he can’t just rely on his sprint/climbing/TT. Uses Race smarts to win on a variety of terrain.

Nibali is easily the greatest rider in the world at the moment. No one else’s palmares come close to his. Gilbert in my opinion is currently second, 3 different monuments and WC. Then I would have valverde/Sagan/froome in third. I think I could happily sort these three in any order.

One can only imagine what would've happened if God gave him just 80% of Valverde's ability to sprint.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Of course Nibali is not a minor talent, sheesh
But looking at the GTs he won, he did so with a lot of luck and several times against low quality opposition. So yes, while he is of course extremely talented 4 GT wins (soon perhaps 5) is not an accurate reflection of his stage racing talent.
And no, that is not "hate".

 

[SafeBet]

One can only imagine what would've happened if God gave him just 80% of Valverde's ability to sprint.

He probably would have evolved into a rider waiting for the sprint in most races.

 

[LaFlorecita]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because a handful of Valverde fans appear to have taken over the forum and will discuss him in any available thread.

 

[LaFlorecita]

One can only imagine what would've happened if God gave him just 80% of Valverde's ability to sprint.

He probably would have evolved into a rider waiting for the sprint in most races.

TRUE

 

[italoc]

A funny thing is that while it is true that Nibali won a lot of races he shouldn't have won (i.e. where you could argue he wasn't the strongest) - Vuelta 2010, Tirreno 2013, Giro 2016, possibly even Lombardia 2015 - at the same time he lost races where he seemed the strongest: Liege 2012 (debatable), Vuelta and Florence 2015, Rio 2016. So I find the overachiever argument a bit silly: he has proved his talent multiple times in different races, and you could even say that he should have won more than he actually did!

 

[King Boonen]

So funny to see people are still claiming Nibali wins because he is lucky. He's the greatest bike racer since Hinault.

 

[Gigs_98]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because a handful of Valverde fans appear to have taken over the forum and will discuss him in any available thread.

Happens a lot with spanish riders

 

[Red Rick]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because a handful of Valverde fans appear to have taken over the forum and will discuss him in any available thread.

Happens a lot with spanish riders

Nibali/Valverde arguments are the result of Pisti doing Pistolero things.

 

[Red Rick]

He is seen as overachiever due to the fact he is not the best at anything. He’s not dominant in any one area, like valverde, froome, Sagan are. However he is probably the smartest tactically in the peloton. This is why he has now got the best palmares in the peloton (IMO in the last 20years) and is one of the most exciting riders to watch as he can’t just rely on his sprint/climbing/TT. Uses Race smarts to win on a variety of terrain.

Nibali is easily the greatest rider in the world at the moment. No one else’s palmares come close to his. Gilbert in my opinion is currently second, 3 different monuments and WC. Then I would have valverde/Sagan/froome in third. I think I could happily sort these three in any order.

One can only imagine what would've happened if God gave him just 80% of Valverde's ability to sprint.

A less aggressive rider.

 

[Rollthedice]

One can only imagine what would've happened if God gave him just 80% of Valverde's ability to sprint.

He probably would have evolved into a rider waiting for the sprint in most races.

I wouldn't be so sure. He has a different mentality, maybe old school romantic warrior. I don't think a better sprint would've turned him into a passive rider, unless his personality would've changed

 

[LaFlorecita]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because a handful of Valverde fans appear to have taken over the forum and will discuss him in any available thread.

Happens a lot with spanish riders

Nibali/Valverde arguments are the result of Pisti doing Pistolero things.

I've looked back to find the beginning of the Valverde vs Nibali discussion and no El Pisti to be found.

 

[Valv.Piti]

can somebody please give me a concrete answer to why ((Valverde)) is being discussed here on the ((NIBALI DISCUSSION THREAD))?

enough already

Because a handful of Valverde fans appear to have taken over the forum and will discuss him in any available thread.

I don't think you necessarily are better in that aspect.. in light of thats its even more of an unreasonable statement, no need for that really.

As Red Rick stated, I think it has something to do with Pisti always trying to denigrate Valverde and his achievements. Naturally, you will get people that don't agree with that, but everyone should probably be doing a better job of not letting the conversation get out of hand. Its probably also only natural to compare Nibali's talent and achievements to that of Contador and especially Valverde after he just won a monument, history will only decide which of those will be remembered as the best and its a very open race.

 

[meat puppet]

Re:

I get where the fact that Nibali is an overachiever comes from. I had the same feelings a couple of years ago. The thing is what Red Rick said. Nibali has immense stamina. That's a talent.
In short easy races and the Vuelta murito finales, he often will come up short. But in the toughest races in the season, either one day or grand tour, he comes to the front. He can just keep going and have multiple attacks in his legs (which is rare, most modern riders only have 1 big attack). That's a huge strength / talent, which enables him to win so many big races. Couple that with good tactics, good bike handling and astounding mental coolness and you have a monster

This is a good summary of Nibali and his forte. I too used to think that he is an overachiever, but have changed my opinion during the last 4 years.

Where his ability stems from is an interesting question. During TDF 2014 I think it was Dr. Ferrari who speculated that Nibs has a very efficient fat metabolism in comparison to his competitors. In other words, he can save muscle glycogen during the early hours of races and expend it to fuel sustained attacks later on in the races, ie. when it counts. Dunno if this is the case precisely. But it would be consistent with his observed thriving in events that require great stamina.

As for the Nibs vs Valverde palmares/talent/whatever comparison, meh. Hope they will clash properly in the ardennes and the worlds.