Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[huge]

Yep. BM looked absolutely useless today. If Nibali was fuming after the TTT, today he's probably wanting to kill a few of his teammates.

 

[skippo12]

He had zero support. Pozzo was the only Bahrain rider who finished with the same time.
Nibali had to do everything by himself. At some point he had 5 teammates in group of 30 rider...no one was close to him or tried to protect him...get him in a better position.
Bahrain is a joke...Haussler and Koren were no shows again, Colbrelli was taken out by van Garderen.
At 80km to go I thought he would lose a lot of time today so I am happy that he finished with the front group.
Pelizotti was their 3rd best rider on the cobbles...Izagirres were nowhere to be seen after the crash.

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

Let's see how BM are on the mountains, Koren and Haussler disappointed. The objective was not to lose time and it was accomplished. The only thing which could go better would have been to be with jungels

 

[DFA123]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

 

[skippo12]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

He was among the best in 2015 as well. Everytime there was a split he was in the front group.

 

[DFA123]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

He was among the best in 2015 as well. Everytime there was a split he was in the front group.

Sure, and once again he had the best team in the race. I'm just saying that we shouldn't blame it all on his team today, but ignore the fact he had the best team the previous times he rode it. Perhaps after all he's just a solid rider on cobbles, rather than a PR contender as was being touted by some.

 

[Akuryo]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

He was among the best in 2015 as well. Everytime there was a split he was in the front group.

Yeah, but that raises the question why he was there. Because of his teammates or his own skill?

 

[skippo12]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

He was among the best in 2015 as well. Everytime there was a split he was in the front group.

Sure, and once again he had the best team in the race. I'm just saying that we shouldn't blame it all on his team today, but ignore the fact he had the best team the previous times he rode it. Perhaps after all he's just a solid rider on cobbles, rather than a PR contender as was being touted by some.

In 2015 he was isolated as well. Not sure why you think he had the best team in the race.
I agree that he isn`t a PR contender but his performance in this years Ronde suggests that he can at least top 10 in a cobbled classic.
Among the best GC riders Fuglsang and Dumoulin might be a little bit better but today showed that it isn`t about the individual level. Without help staying in front of the group costs a lot of energy.

 

[46&twoWheels]

Don't really know what to think about today. The lack of support was ridiculous and he basically had to position himself on his own all the time, was never anywhere near the front at the beginning of the sectors and had to close some big gaps on his own. At the end of the stage he looked really spent so I should probably be happy that he didn't have any mishaps because that could have ended his gc ambitions. Still it feels like a wasted opportunity and it's just disappointing that he couldn't even give it a try.

The other side of the 'team support' coin is that his Astana teammates basically handed time to him on a plate in 2014. So, maybe he's just not particularly good on cobbles when he's not delivered right at the front of every secteur.

He was among the best in 2015 as well. Everytime there was a split he was in the front group.

Sure, and once again he had the best team in the race. I'm just saying that we shouldn't blame it all on his team today, but ignore the fact he had the best team the previous times he rode it. Perhaps after all he's just a solid rider on cobbles, rather than a PR contender as was being touted by some.

In terms of absolute value: he's certainly among the best in the GC contenders pack,not considering the team. I don't think there's somebody who believed he was at the level of GVA....
Today he had below average conditions whereas in 2014 he had a great team.

Also. Nobody mentioned it but Nibs is also great with the rain (decision-making and risk-taking with a slippery surface). the 2014 stage was a completely different animal.

 

[DFA123]

In 2015 he was isolated as well. Not sure why you think he had the best team in the race.
I agree that he isn`t a PR contender but his performance in this years Ronde suggests that he can at least top 10 in a cobbled classic.
Among the best GC riders Fuglsang and Dumoulin might be a little bit better but today showed that it isn`t about the individual level. Without help staying in front of the group costs a lot of energy.

Sure, I'm not saying he's bad on cobbles. Far from it, he's obviously pretty good at them for a GC rider. Just that perhaps expectations on him were too high, based on performances in his Astana days. He was never going to get the same kind of help and positioning today as he did back in 2014-15.

I think Dumoulin and Fuglsang were both way more impressive today, not just a little better. They also both had very little team support but were at the front all race and tried multiple attacks each.

 

[huge]

2014 cannot compared neither to 2015 nor to this year.
Wet and muddy cobbles are a totally different story than dry ones.
In 2014 it was more about bike handling skills than power and positioning.

 

[Carols]

Haussler, Koren, Colbrelli all No Shows . Maybe Vince didn't have good legs, as he was always far back in the front group or fighting to get to the front group, but he sure had zero team help

 

[skippo12]

In 2015 he was isolated as well. Not sure why you think he had the best team in the race.
I agree that he isn`t a PR contender but his performance in this years Ronde suggests that he can at least top 10 in a cobbled classic.
Among the best GC riders Fuglsang and Dumoulin might be a little bit better but today showed that it isn`t about the individual level. Without help staying in front of the group costs a lot of energy.

Sure, I'm not saying he's bad on cobbles. Far from it, he's obviously pretty good at them for a GC rider. Just that perhaps expectations on him were too high, based on performances in his Astana days. He was never going to get the same kind of help and positioning today as he did back in 2014-15.

I think Dumoulin and Fuglsang were both way more impressive today, not just a little better. They also both had very little team support but were at the front all race and tried multiple attacks each.

Obviously they were better today but in 2015 Nibali did the same. Took the lead on the cobbles and set a high pace without dropping anyone. Dumoulin actually had a great Kragh-Andersen by his side today.

 

[huge]

Nibali has just said that he crashed.

He was behind Uran when the Colombian crashed just in front of him. Nibali managed to go around him but his front wheel got stuck and he crashed as well.

"I managed to get easily back to the peloton. And from there onwards I tried to stay at the front, but it was very difficult. At the start of each cobble section it was like a sprint. And a lot of dust. Happy? It's been a difficult day, and I'm tired now. But yes, I'm also happy"

 

[Carols]

Re:

Nibali has just said that he crashed.

He was behind Uran when the Colombian crashed just in front of him. Nibali managed to go around him but his front wheel got stuck and he crashed as well.

"I managed to get easily back to the peloton. And from there onwards I tried to stay at the front, but it was very difficult. At the start of each cobble section it was like a sprint. And a lot of dust. Happy? It's been a difficult day, and I'm tired now. But yes, I'm also happy"

Okay there was so much going on everyone totally missed that! I sure would like to know if his teamed helped him to get back 'easily'. If he's happy, I'm happy.

 

[Brullnux]

Clearly strong when he had to close people back down but was always so out of position entering into the cobbles. Couldn't do anything at that point. Disappointing in all honesty. I mean, it's always going to be hard to make the difference on dry flat cobbles when you don't have that much power, but he didn't really try that much. Obviously only having Pozzovivo (!) as a teammate isn't great.

As for his ability on the cobbles, he's up there. At Flanders he was stronger at Oude Kwaremont which has the worst cobbles. If there's a rainy Roubaix and he's there, he would be seriously good. Obviously he was helped by fugslang and westra, but he, unlike Sagan and Cancellara and everyone else, didn't lose the wheel.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Clearly strong when he had to close people back down but was always so out of position entering into the cobbles. Couldn't do anything at that point. Disappointing in all honesty. I mean, it's always going to be hard to make the difference on dry flat cobbles when you don't have that much power, but he didn't really try that much. Obviously only having Pozzovivo (!) as a teammate isn't great.

As for his ability on the cobbles, he's up there. At Flanders he was stronger at Oude Kwaremont which has the worst cobbles. If there's a rainy Roubaix and he's there, he would be seriously good. Obviously he was helped by fugslang and westra, but he, unlike Sagan and Cancellara and everyone else, didn't lose the wheel.

What I was also thinking about was that because there were way more cobbles than last time, they were ridden a lot more conservatively. It felt like the races was ridden at the back more than riders trying to fly off the front, until the final selection was made.

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

Clearly strong when he had to close people back down but was always so out of position entering into the cobbles. Couldn't do anything at that point. Disappointing in all honesty. I mean, it's always going to be hard to make the difference on dry flat cobbles when you don't have that much power, but he didn't really try that much. Obviously only having Pozzovivo (!) as a teammate isn't great.

As for his ability on the cobbles, he's up there. At Flanders he was stronger at Oude Kwaremont which has the worst cobbles. If there's a rainy Roubaix and he's there, he would be seriously good. Obviously he was helped by fugslang and westra, but he, unlike Sagan and Cancellara and everyone else, didn't lose the wheel.

What I was also thinking about was that because there were way more cobbles than last time, they were ridden a lot more conservatively. It felt like the races was ridden at the back more than riders trying to fly off the front, until the final selection was made.

The hectic racing was between sectors and the fight for position going into the cobbles. Several crashes happened right at the entrance to a section or inbetween the cobbles.

On the cobbles a selection was not really made at all...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Clearly strong when he had to close people back down but was always so out of position entering into the cobbles. Couldn't do anything at that point. Disappointing in all honesty. I mean, it's always going to be hard to make the difference on dry flat cobbles when you don't have that much power, but he didn't really try that much. Obviously only having Pozzovivo (!) as a teammate isn't great.

As for his ability on the cobbles, he's up there. At Flanders he was stronger at Oude Kwaremont which has the worst cobbles. If there's a rainy Roubaix and he's there, he would be seriously good. Obviously he was helped by fugslang and westra, but he, unlike Sagan and Cancellara and everyone else, didn't lose the wheel.

What I was also thinking about was that because there were way more cobbles than last time, they were ridden a lot more conservatively. It felt like the races was ridden at the back more than riders trying to fly off the front, until the final selection was made.

The hectic racing was between sectors and the fight for position going into the cobbles. Several crashes happened right at the entrance to a section or inbetween the cobbles.

On the cobbles a selection was not really made at all...

Yeah, cobbles are really a race of attrition, not enough attrition in 153km.

Over a shorter stage, a Flanders type stage with 12 of them hills would be a lot more selective.

 

[SafeBet]

No team support but a veery defensive ride as well. I don't think he had good legs today. Good that he didn't lose any time and was always able to close the gaps. Pozzovivo is in amazing shape, which is great news for the mountains.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I have no real expectations to Nibali, but I hope I am wrong....

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

Yeh i m also thinking the legs just werent there yesterday.
Way too far back in the peloton to even anticipate any splits or anything. He was held up by the uran crash but that was also completly at the back of the peloton. He shouldnt have been there and that is not his racing style when he feels good.
That being said the team is not on par with the other gc teams so i hope they will be better in the mountains.
Much respect to pozzo however for doing an excellent job so far.
It might be because of the weather too, he s bettter when its less hot imo.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, can't we just get the freaking snow already

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I have no real expectations to Nibali, but I hope I am wrong....

Usually almost nobody has, yet he podiumed GTs for 10 times. I see no reason yet to think it can't be his eleven this year.

 

[dusty red roads]

I kept wondering why he wasn't up there, but then I read somewhere upthread (or in the race thread?) that he said he crashed right behind Uran, so he did pretty well considering...!