Vingegaard vs Pogačar - The Duel

[Cookster15]

It grates you that the DS says it will be hard to succeed, but they believe their plan will work? Should all encouragements end? Better tell him that they will give it a go, but to start off with, you shouldn't believe that you can succeed?

It's boilerplate encouragement to carry out their plan for the stage. If anything, it's quite modest this time: ~"It will be hard, but we believe it will work."

I get all that. But Visma’s predictions about long hard climbs didn’t start this tour. They are repeating the lines from 2023. Like I said cycling isn’t 100% predictable. Vingegaard has been quite incredible after his hospitalisation and shortened preparations but showed some weakness today. And it also seems Pogacar and UAE have worked hard to better cope with hot days.

 

[Netserk]

I get all that. But Visma’s predictions about long hard climbs didn’t start this tour. They are repeating the lines from 2023. Like I said cycling isn’t 100% predictable. Vingegaard has been quite incredible after his hospitalisation and shortened preparations but showed some weakness today. And it also seems Pogacar and UAE have worked hard to better cope with hot days.

So what should he have said over the radio at that point to encourage his riders that wouldn't grate on you?

 

[Cookster15]

So what should he have said over the radio at that point to encourage his riders that wouldn't grate on you?

“We believe he will have problems” - like they have everything worked out. Just like Sky and Brailsford in the past. It comes across as arrogance.

I realise radio communications are in the heat of the battle but better to focus on your own performance and see what happens rather than predict what your competitor can or cannot do. Obviously they are trying to encourage their rider. But those words betrayed the attitude I’ve heard from Plugge for the last two years - like they know Pogacar’s limits. Anyway Pogacar didn’t have problems on PdB, it was their boy who did.

Vingegaard is still incredible all things considered. Visma might bounce back yet on stages 19 and 20. We will see.

 

[Cookster15]

Vingegaard is still incredible all things considered. Visma might bounce back yet on stages 19 and 20

Looking doubtful. But today I think Pogacar put the winner of the duel almost beyond doubt.

But since Vingegaard has an excuse this whets our appetites for a fair rematch in 2025.

 

[iBanesto]

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Top2 in four consecutive Tour editions. No pair of cyclists have achieved this feat even in a non-consecutive way. Maybe already the biggest Tour rivalry in history. And it's not over: you had better start preparing for chapter 5 next year.

 

[Salvarani]

Lead is extended by the way.

 

[Salvarani]

Here we go. I hope the leaders are ready @Froome @Salvarani

Never in doubt

 

[Netserk]

Cumulative GC across all 4 Tour editions against each other:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +1'25"

Without Champs-Élysées time losses:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +34"

 

[topt]

what duel

 

[AmRacer]

Cumulative GC across all 4 Tour editions against each other:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +1'25"

Without Champs-Élysées time losses:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +34"

Everybody else, 500h

 

[topt]

Top2 in four consecutive Tour editions. No pair of cyclists have achieved this feat even in a non-consecutive way. Maybe already the biggest Tour rivalry in history. And it's not over: you had better start preparing for chapter 5 next year.

I dont think Jonas will win ever again if Pog stays on bike

 

[Peyroteo94]

Another chapter came to an end. 2-2 for the biggest rivalry cycling has ever witnessed. Hope for no misfortunes next year to have both of them in top shape.

 

[velaso montador]

He was 100 % in 2022. Had a bad day after being attacked by both Rogla and Vingegaard on Galibier, but was strong the next day.

He got his ass handed to him on Hautacam again and in the final ITT. Just not good enough.

Its not exactly a dicussion at all outside a few danes, look I get it I really do. Just leave me out of it haha jesus

Lets go over the facts again which we tried before:

2022 Visma say Pogacar beat himself which everyone watching saw themselves along with Jumbo, but the same people said otherwice here thats not half glass empty kinda view at all.
2023 Pogacar starts the race and ride the race with a broken wrist. How anyone comes to that conclusion after that you know the answer to that.

Who woulda guessed this would happen hmm.... glass half empty narratives nothing else- ill just leave with if anyone was actually surprised over what happened I'm shocked if anyone was that, that is all its always been obvious to me at least

 

[velaso montador]

But make no mistakes Vingegaard is a champion a legend as it gets make no mistakes about it he is a legend, historically good and all that but at the same time its also is what it is and always has been clear.

He also always part of Pogacar history for the moment how good he actually is and that tells it all - I would suggest to celebrate Vingegaard as he deserved to be and not make him into and put him up against something he never been he deserves praise so lets just do that is my tip and who knows it might also change in the future but lets see it first without a asterisks. Its just levels to things like this and it always has been if you look at it with not glass half empty kind of view its always been easy to figure out. Enjoy now

 

[RedheadDane]

2023 Pogacar starts the race and ride the race with a broken wrist. How anyone comes to that conclusion after that you know the answer to that.

No he didn't, just like Vingegaard didn't race this year with multiple broken bones. In both cases, the broken bones in question had indeed healed by the time the race started, the issue was the lack of training.

 

[Froome]

I dont think Jonas will win ever again if Pog stays on bike

You came to that conclusion after ironically Jonas not staying on the bike. It makes all of the sense in the world.

 

[Cassirer]

Lets go over the facts again which we tried before

I got left behind when the word "facts" changed its meaning to "intellectual pull ups to somehow keep my worldview coherent". Must have been around 2016 US election, 2018 invention of tiktok or something. But I will try and catch up!

Jeez vinge only few minutes behind pog after life threatening injury, without it wouldnt even be close, scary thought tbh ngl, everybody in cycling agrees on this. No disrespect to pogi btw, he did well, but vingegaard is just the taylor swift of bicycling just stating facts here.

 

[Froome]

I got left behind when the word "facts" changed its meaning to "intellectual pull ups to somehow keep my worldview coherent". Must have been around 2016 US election, 2018 invention of tiktok or something. But I will try and catch up!

Jeez vinge only few minutes behind pog after life threatening injury, without it wouldnt even be close, scary thought tbh ngl, everybody in cycling agrees on this. No disrespect to pogi btw, he did well, but vingegaard is just the taylor swift of bicycling just stating facts here.

The true is Vingegaard finished more close to Pogacar than Pogacar finished last year to Vingegaard with injuries more severe than the injury Pogacar had last year on the wrist.

 

[BigCoward]

Cumulative GC across all 4 Tour editions against each other:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +1'25"

Without Champs-Élysées time losses:

Pogi: 328h24'46"
Vingegaard: +34"

Without time bonuses +3 seconds.

 

[bNator]

The true is Vingegaard finished more close to Pogacar than Pogacar finished last year to Vingegaard with injuries more severe than the injury Pogacar had last year on the wrist.

That is one of the many facts, yes. Another one is that Pog destroyed (the term you used frequently over the last couple of months) Vingegaard on every mountain stage this Tour. Apart from the stage where Pog forgot to eat there was not a single moment on this Tour where Jonas was better than Pog, unlike last Tour where Pog was frequently better than Jonas.

Even I'm hoping that's down to Jonas injury otherwise tours may get boring in the future...

 

[James M]

That is one of the many facts, yes. Another one is that Pog destroyed (the term you used frequently over the last couple of months) Vingegaard on every mountain stage this Tour. Apart from the stage where Pog forgot to eat there was not a single moment on this Tour where Jonas was better than Pog, unlike last Tour where Pog was frequently better than Jonas.

Even I'm hoping that's down to Jonas injury otherwise tours may get boring in the future...

Pog also rode the Giro first and rode away from everyone with ease on every mountain, this is just a completely new level of climbing its not close. I think vingegaard is much closer to Remco like ive seen many say thats just the reality of it.

I dont think Jonas will win ever again if Pog stays on bike

I agree im afraid.

 

[Panda Claws]

Lol no way Vingegaard at the moment is closer to Remco than Pogacar. Let's not get carried away here.

 

[Bolder]

I dont think Jonas will win ever again if Pog stays on bike

I think we said that after last year but vice versa

 

[AmRacer]

I dont think Jonas will win ever again if Pog stays on bike

2025, Tour and Vuelta for Pog
2026, Giro and Tour. 4 consecutive GT wins.

Edit: Jonas wins Giro 2025 and Vuelta 2026.