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Vingegaard vs Pogačar - The Duel

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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

Sep 26, 2020
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SHAD0W93 said:
The main question is if Visma try again and risk being embarrassed or try again on stages 19 and 20.
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They should be targeting more stage wins from now on. The best they could hope for, would be if they get multiple riders into a big breakaway on stage 17/18 together with Almeida, Landa and Rodríguez, and that group then wins by 11 minutes or more. Not very likely to happen, of course, but it's probably the only scenario that could make the rest of the race completely (/somewhat) unpredictable.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

Aug 13, 2011
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dacooley said:
Where is risking of being embarassed out there? There's nothing embarassing in being noticably weaker than Pogacar. Making some suicide moves and attacking from 100km to go with an aim of exploding the race and then missing 2nd place is just dumb. Visma are very very distant to what they were capable of in the Tour 2022. Jorgenson is OK, Wout is clearly not there. I have a feeling he can't recover from overloading. In 2021-2022 he was racing on nearly Pogacar's level with even crazier intensity: best breakaway-specialist, 1st on Ventoux, strongest time-trialist, stellar climbing domestic, all the relentless attacking... No one can race like this for long.
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They risk towing Pogacar to the line and he dropping Vingegaard again to gain more time, after all the stuff they’ve said the last 3 years.
 
stekelegel

stekelegel

Jul 17, 2022
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They are just different caracters and riders. Pogacar is the most talented cyclist since Hinault and Merckx and likes to ride and win all sort of races. It has been said many times he is not the type to sit on a mountain for 3 months and just ride the preparation races. I feel he benefits by keeping up the motivation.
Vingegard is more limited to the grand tours with his recovery powers and focus, wich he needs to have a chance of beating Pogacar. He needs to put everything into riding long hard climbs as fast as possible, the one area where he has hurt Pogacar before. And even then they needed a team effort to blunt Pogacar in 2022. Riding a Pogacar type program would hurt him more.

Visma is said to be close to Yates. So next year it could be Vinge, Kuss, Yates, Jorgenson, Kelderman even maybe Uijtdebroeks. Kruiswijk probably to old. But what he really needs is another Roglic, that worries Pogacar.
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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James M said:
Dont really seem close in strenght department to me when he is not injured personally dont think it ever was.

Picture says a more than thousand words. :sweatsmile:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1812788003879649366
View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1812788003879649366
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Be honest, everyone knew it was over when we saw this. I was giggling. This is not one level up on the last couple of years, but two levels. Stratospheric performance, best performance and rider I have ever seen - and by a wide margin!
 
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B

Bolder

Jun 25, 2015
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stekelegel said:
They are just different caracters and riders. Pogacar is the most talented cyclist since Hinault and Merckx and likes to ride and win all sort of races. It has been said many times he is not the type to sit on a mountain for 3 months and just ride the preparation races. I feel he benefits by keeping up the motivation.
Vingegard is more limited to the grand tours with his recovery powers and focus, wich he needs to have a chance of beating Pogacar. He needs to put everything into riding long hard climbs as fast as possible, the one area where he has hurt Pogacar before. And even then they needed a team effort to blunt Pogacar in 2022. Riding a Pogacar type program would hurt him more.

Visma is said to be close to Yates. So next year it could be Vinge, Kuss, Yates, Jorgenson, Kelderman even maybe Uijtdebroeks. Kruiswijk probably to old. But what he really needs is another Roglic, that worries Pogacar.
Click to expand...
You could also compare Pog to Greg Lemond, who despite having a shortened career also showed talent in a lot of different races, and a similar will to win in the big ones. (albeit it was a different era).

Vingegaard is a classic pure climber, who I think needs a strong team around him. He doesn't have that this year. But I bet with a few more kilos and a different focus he could win LBL and Lombardia.
 
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Lequack

Lequack

Jul 10, 2014
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He says he will fight on, which is good for the race

GShu2ZDWoAAEGFb
 
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OJRvE

OJRvE

Nov 28, 2021
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Anything can happen on the 19th stage as been proved many times with stages with similar design at the end of GT. Visma could try to race Bonette in full gas and if Vingegaard is stronger and manages to drop Pog there I think 3 minutes is possible. The big if is of course that he needs to be stronger which it doesn’t look like now.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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YavorD said:
Of course he will fight. Once you win the Tour 2 times you don't just quit and ride for second (unless you're 8 minutes behind). He will probably go all oun at Come de la Bonette and if Pogacar counters him, no shame in losing.
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Bonette is very from the finish. Maybe Pogacar will wait for Almeida and lose 3 minutes before Isola. He will be fresher and he will have Yates to close the gap to 2:30. This would be my wet dream! Pogacar doing a solo of 12 km to catch Jonas in Isola. Could he close a 2:30 gap? I think so.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Valv.Piti said:
Be honest, everyone knew it was over when we saw this. I was giggling. This is not one level up on the last couple of years, but two levels. Stratospheric performance, best performance and rider I have ever seen - and by a wide margin!
Click to expand...
Yeah. The performances in this weekend were way better than I expected anyone could reach. There's a before and an after. A gradual increase from 2019 to the Tour this year, then a step change.

So right now I pretty much have to bin my previous mental model of what the best riders can do. Who knows where the space cowboys go.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

Nov 16, 2013
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perico said:
Fignon/LeMond, Hinault/Lemond, Indurain/LeMond off the top of my head.
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They didn't have that status at the time of the stages.

The only time you might argue it had happened was on the Paris stage in 1938 where Magne and Leducq shared the stage win for some reason. Yet, ad Cilian points out, that's not getting first and second, so the statement holds true.
 
stekelegel

stekelegel

Jul 17, 2022
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Bolder said:
You could also compare Pog to Greg Lemond, who despite having a shortened career also showed talent in a lot of different races, and a similar will to win in the big ones. (albeit it was a different era).

Vingegaard is a classic pure climber, who I think needs a strong team around him. He doesn't have that this year. But I bet with a few more kilos and a different focus he could win LBL and Lombardia.
Click to expand...
For me Pogacar is the perfection of a new breed: the climber who is good enough to be a classic rider also.
Merckx, Hinault, Lemond, they we're powerhouses who just battered the climbers. With the heavy bikes, long stages, lesser preparation and teammates, in thoose days you just needed the extra kg to survive 3 weeks of grand tours.
Then came the Epo TT riders heavyweights who could suddenly climb to, Indurain, Rominger, Ulrich. Remco would have ruled supreme in those days. Van Aert would have been a GC contender in those days.
Armstrong reversed the trend, lost weight but kept his TT credentials and acceleriation. Still Epo fueled, but Froome was basicly the same, only EPO was replaced by supreme professionalism and teammates.
Also the fact that ITT were tuned down and MTF stages are more popular with TV viewers favors the lightweight climber.
 
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