Vingegaard vs Pogačar - The Duel

[VayaVayaVaya]

I might have missed the discussion; what’s the consensus on 2024 level vs 2025 level?

Reasons to believe 2024 level was higher:

• PdBF - best Pantana by 3 or 4 minutes
• Pogacar to Vingegaard gap was 6 minutes vs 4
• Gap to 5th was bigger (20 minutes vs 17)
• Influencer watts calculations are higher overall
• Final 2025 stages were underwhelming with no devastating attacks of watt bombs

Reasons to believe 2025 level was higher:

• Pogacar didn’t do the Giro first and Vingegaard didn’t crash horribly a couple months before, so logically they should have been in better shape
• Vingegaard said he was in the shape of his life
• Gap to 3rd was bigger (11 minutes vs 9)
• Gap to 10th was bigger (32 minutes vs 27)
• 2025 was raced much harder overall average speed of 43kph vs 41kph)
• The Tour was so hard Pogacar got depressed
• Ventoux record smashed

 

[SHAD0W93]

Did he talk or write about that? Or is that your interpretation of what caused his problems?

Ullrich has talked about it being hard losing to Armstrong by a lot, especially when he felt like he was in amazing shape in either 2000 or 2001. In addition to his other issues and the environment he was brought up in.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@VayaVayaVaya I would say Pogacar's first two weeks of the Tour were around peak 2024 level: the flat TT, Hautacam (demolition in tough weather conditions, even if not PdB numbers) and Peyreguades. Ventoux was great by both Pogi and Vingo. The Alps MTF performances were undewhelming (fatigue felt by both but probably also due to tactical reasons). OTOH Pogi's first half of Tour 2024 wasn't as thermonuclear as the second half either. All in all I would say Pogi slightly below 2024 (he had better level at the end last year) while Vingo similar (despite strong mountain performances he underperformed in two stages so that's why I can't say he was better this year).

 

[snipeheem]

@VayaVayaVaya I would say Pogacar's first two weeks of the Tour were around peak 2024 level: the flat TT, Hautacam (demolition in tough weather conditions, even if not PdB numbers) and Peyreguades. Ventoux was great by both Pogi and Vingo. The Alps MTF performances were undewhelming (fatigue felt by both but probably also due to tactical reasons). OTOH Pogi's first half of Tour 2024 wasn't as thermonuclear as the second half either. All in all I would say Pogi slightly below 2024 (he had better level at the end last year) while Vingo similar (despite strong mountain performances he underperformed in two stages so that's why I can't say he was better this year).

How far was pogi on Hautacam? Compared to PdB

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingo's quote sums up it pretty well:

I think that for me, and maybe also for Tadej, the Tour de France is so big that the teams that have a candidate for victory want them to be there even if we didn't want to go.

"We have to be there even if we didn't want to go": Jonas Vingegaard confirms just how important is Tour de France

Tadej Pogacar wasn't really challenged by anyone for his last two Tour de France titles. Thus the Slovenian is already at 4 yellow jerseys, and the number could've been much higher if it wasn't for Jo...

cyclinguptodate.com

I'm sure I've heard something similar from Tadej recently. The Tour is a must for them, even if they don't want to go.

6th consecutive Pogigaard/Vingecar top2 at the Tour: loading in progress...
BTW it's unbelievable that during the next Tour they still will be only 27 and 29 yo.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingo's quote sums up it pretty well:

I think that for me, and maybe also for Tadej, the Tour de France is so big that the teams that have a candidate for victory want them to be there even if we didn't want to go.

"We have to be there even if we didn't want to go": Jonas Vingegaard confirms just how important is Tour de France

Tadej Pogacar wasn't really challenged by anyone for his last two Tour de France titles. Thus the Slovenian is already at 4 yellow jerseys, and the number could've been much higher if it wasn't for Jo...

cyclinguptodate.com

I'm sure I've heard something similar from Tadej recently. The Tour is a must for them, even if they don't want to go.

6th consecutive Pogigaard/Vingecar top2 at the Tour: loading in progress...
BTW it's unbelievable that during the next Tour they still will be only 27 and 29 yo.

It seems both will race the TdF again. Let's see if Vingegaard will try Giro-Tour.