Vino bought the 2010 LBL?

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cineteq

cineteq

May 20, 2009
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Vino attacks everyone said:
2. He is not a "hero" because he is this perfect superhuman (he is only superhuman), but because he is 10 times more entertaining to watch ride than the whole peloton put togheter.
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What is the reason he is entertaining again? :rolleyes:

Carols said:
I've been a Vino fan for a Long Time; but this is just to much. Seems he will take every avenue to cheat there is...I sure don't want to see him managing Nibali!!!
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A recipe for disaster. :(
 
L

Lanark

May 12, 2010
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Vino attacks everyone said:
rofl

1. Money exchange is nothing new in any sport.
2. He is not a "hero" because he is this perfect superhuman (he is only superhuman), but because he is 10 times more entertaining to watch ride than the whole peloton put togheter.
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No, cheating is nothing new either. But that's no reason to condone it.

He may have been entertaining, but that means little to me if you use the methods to achieve that which Vino used.
 
C

coinneach

Jul 22, 2011
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The only other pro sport I can comment on, funnily enough, is golf.
Its not uncommon, if there is a play off to decide the winner, that they agree amongst themselves to split the prize money. It makes the pain of loosing more bearable.
However, they all still try their best to win, as far as I know!
I think Vino would have won LBL anyway, and its as much an indication of the guy who was going to come second looking for some insurance.
 
Magnus

Magnus

Apr 8, 2010
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hrotha said:
The "it's always been a part of cycling" argument is so weak.
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Depends on what you're arguing.

If you're arguing about the morality of the winner paying of number two, then yes, it is a weak argument.

If you're arguing that Vino is simply acting within the (unwritten) rules of cycling history and isn't ultimate evil for paying Kolobnev, then no, it isn't a weak argument.
 
D

Dutchsmurf

Jul 5, 2010
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coinneach said:
Vino is a typical sport cheat: doesn't care about anything, any damage to the sport so long as he wins.
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Sounds like Vino is your basic sportsman then. Because they all have that killer instinct that makes them want to win no matter what. That instinct is what makes them that good.

Also a money transaction isn't proof of anything in this case. It is quite common to split price money with the one coming second. It is close to impossible to proof Vino bought the win, unless Kolobnev speaks out, but we all know he won't. I just don't see what other proof there might be.
 
jens_attacks

jens_attacks

Sep 8, 2009
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Dutchsmurf said:
Sounds like Vino is your basic sportsman then. Because they all have that killer instinct that makes them want to win no matter what. That instinct is what makes them that good.

Also a money transaction isn't proof of anything in this case. It is quite common to split price money with the one coming second. It is close to impossible to proof Vino bought the win, unless Kolobnev speaks out, but we all know he won't. I just don't see what other proof there might be.
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exactly.
still vino should never go again at two meters of a laptop or phone.
definitely his fault that a gentlemen agreement was made public. also it's hilarious how italian prosecutors chase cyclists,what's next will they arrest someone because they stay behind a car too long? ridiculous.

anyway, vino....inbox, ctrl a+ delete ....c'mon is not that fuccin difficult...poor kolo i think lost some sleep these last two years:(
the part where vino owns even his wife admiration is just precious. vino is a boss.

helluva race that was

882443642_ID3458436_vino_130347_025MFD_0.JPG
 
dolophonic

dolophonic

Mar 11, 2009
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jens_attacks said:
exactly.
still vino should never go again at two meters of a laptop or phone.
definitely his fault that a gentlemen agreement was made public. also it's hilarious how italian prosecutors chase cyclists,what's next will they arrest someone because they stay behind a car too long? ridiculous.

anyway, vino....inbox, ctrl a+ delete ....c'mon is not that fuccin difficult...poor kolo i think lost some sleep these last two years:(
the part where vino owns even his wife admiration is just precious. vino is a boss.

helluva race that was

882443642_ID3458436_vino_130347_025MFD_0.JPG
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I like the way you put it Jensie..
 
Peccio89

Peccio89

Jun 4, 2011
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Things like these are in the nature of cycling itself: when two ryders are away to avoid one of them stop pulling you make this kind of agreement, so that the supposedly weaker ryder has an incentive to help and the breakaway has a chance to stay away. I don't see anything wrong with it, convercely i think that this dealing within the race is one of the many aspect that make cycling particularly fun to watch: because when you're analyzing a race situation you don't have to take into account only pure strenght but also tactics, possible alliances, and even agreement.
 
Afrank

Afrank

Aug 16, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
2. He is not a "hero" because he is this perfect superhuman (he is only superhuman), but because he is 10 times more entertaining to watch ride than the whole peloton put togheter.
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Just because he is entertaining to watch excuses him from doing any wrong then?

Dutchsmurf said:
Also a money transaction isn't proof of anything in this case. It is quite common to split price money with the one coming second. It is close to impossible to proof Vino bought the win, unless Kolobnev speaks out, but we all know he won't. I just don't see what other proof there might be.
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The proof is the emails that have been published
Kolobnevs emails to vino-
“I don’t know if I did the right thing. I didn’t do it for the contract (money) but out of respect for you and for the situation you were in.

“Even my wife was disappointed I finished second.”
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“Now I’m waiting patiently. Take my details and delete this email.”
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Vino's reply-
“Hi Kolobok, I’m sorry I didn’t answer you earlier. Don’t worry, you did the right thing. …

“You said yourself that what goes around comes around and God sees everything.

“I will respect our deal. You’ll have to wait a while. Vino.”
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From the emails I could definitely see how one could get the impression that vino payed Kolobnev. Kolobnev saying he wasn't sure if he did the right thing could indicate he wasn't sure about taking the money to lose to Vino. I don't think he would be unsure that if working with Vino to stay away was the right thing.

Then Vino saying he will respect their deal also sounds a lot like they made a deal for Vino to win. Vino saying this could just mean that it was a deal for them to work together, but one would think the chance of winning Liege-Bastogne-Liege would be enough to make Kolobnev work with Vino.
 
D

Dutchsmurf

Jul 5, 2010
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Afrank said:
From the emails I could definitely see how one could get the impression that vino payed Kolobnev. Kolobnev saying he wasn't sure if he did the right thing could indicate he wasn't sure about taking the money to lose to Vino. I don't think he would be unsure that if working with Vino to stay away was the right thing.

Then Vino saying he will respect their deal also sounds a lot like they made a deal for Vino to win. Vino saying this could just mean that it was a deal for them to work together, but one would think the chance of winning Liege-Bastogne-Liege would be enough to make Kolobnev work with Vino.
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Sure that is how it looks like, but there is no definite proof. Because it indeed can also mean the agreement to work together. Kolobnev could have decided to stay in Vino's wheel instead, possible ending the breakaway, but increasing his own win chances. If this is all there is, the judge will just laugh and continue to a more important case. As long as Vino and Kolobnev keep their story straight, there is nothing that will stick in court.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Dutchsmurf said:
Sure that is how it looks like, but there is no definite proof. Because it indeed can also mean the agreement to work together. Kolobnev could have decided to stay in Vino's wheel instead, possible ending the breakaway, but increasing his own win chances. If this is all there is, the judge will just laugh and continue to a more important case. As long as Vino and Kolobnev keep their story straight, there is nothing that will stick in court.
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There's also no definitive proof against Armstrong then. The e-mails are very clear actually. "If it were anyone but you, I wouldn't have done it."
 
Afrank

Afrank

Aug 16, 2011
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Dutchsmurf said:
Sure that is how it looks like, but there is no definite proof. Because it indeed can also mean the agreement to work together. Kolobnev could have decided to stay in Vino's wheel instead, possible ending the breakaway, but increasing his own win chances. If this is all there is, the judge will just laugh and continue to a more important case. As long as Vino and Kolobnev keep their story straight, there is nothing that will stick in court.
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I'm still not sold on it being a agreement to work together. If Kolobnev had refused to work they might have been caught, and then he would have had Gilbert, Vino, Evans and others to sprint against, but working with Vino he would always get either 1st or 2nd. And 150,000 is a lot of money to pay someone to work with you, I would think just the chance of winning a cycling monument would be enough to get the other guy to work with you, without having to pay them.
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Mar 31, 2010
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thirteen said:
and another article... starting to make the english news now.

it's been discounted before but now, all of a sudden, it's roaring back to life... why? :mad:
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because as I've said a million times yet. the padua investigation is a joke and now the biggest news they have is vino paying kolobnev money :eek:
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Mar 31, 2010
18,136
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Afrank said:
I've always liked Vino as a rider. His attacking style of racing is the kind that every rider should aspire to duplicate. And I've been able to look past the doping because he served his suspension and came back strong. But if he did pay Kolobnev for the LBL victory like the emails seem to indicate he did, well I guess it is still a good performance after 2 years out of the sport because even without the money he would have been 1st or 2nd. But it does taint the victory, and put a damper on it.

Also I've never heard of a winning rider paying the rider that got 2nd like people on here are saying happens. Is this actually something that happens in cycling? I can't really think of a good reason for the winning rider to pay the 2nd placed rider unless it was for the win. Are there any proven examples of this happening?
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really never heard of that? at least in netherlands commentatoprs talked about if oftenly. also former cyclists. happens in pretty much every race. nothign wrong with it either as both guys will give it a shot to win and the winner pays the loser, so he's not entirely emptyhanded after the effort
 
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