LugHugger said:Well, we aren't party to the evidence but if the UCI are presented with irrefutable DNA evidence that links samples taken from Valverde during the Giro with OP bag samples, then, Yes the ban should immediately be imposed on a worldwide basis irrespective of whether he is in mid race.
What are the UCI dragging their heels over????
LugHugger said:What are the UCI dragging their heels over????
Bala Verde said:quite possibly the legal implications of suspending someone based on evidence that is supposedly to have achieved a certain status under Spanish law, and hence the interference with a nation's sovereignty, and/or contributing to the anullment of a criminal case based on violations of fair trial safeguards, due to the supposed status of that aforementioned evidence.
but that's just a wild guess... They could also just be really really slow...
Zoncolan said:That all makes perfect sense, especially the last part about them being super slow![]()
Bala Verde said:Well, I might have to clarify what they could be contemplating. To illustrate:
If someone is accused of committing a murder, and the police finds evidence, in this case a knife with fingerprints, the prosecutor will initiate criminal investigation/procedures.
Criminal offenses are marked as such, based on the sentence the accused faces, in case he is found guilty. From that perspective, fair trial guarantees are necessitated, so that the accused has basic protections against being put away indefinitely, a common practice in dictatorships.
If a third party, not (even remotely) involved in the case, for example in the murder case above, has (gotten) access to certain evidence, the knife with the fingerprints, the evidence that incriminates the accused, could have been tampered with. For example, the third party, for whatever reason, could have removed, or 'added' fingerprints, so that the accused will be found guilty.
Therefore, since an impartial and fair trial has not been guaranteed, due to interference of a third party, and especially during a criminal process, I believe the court will have to remove the evidence from consideration, or the prosecutor might even have to drop the charges entirely.
Perhaps the UCI is painfully slow in contemplating such a scenario, and if it wants to associate its name with it the CONI investigation...
But again, since they initially accused Michael Schumacher of use of CERA, instead of Stefan, they are probably trying to spell his name right...![]()
BroDeal said:I don't think this applies because CONI never had access to the evidence. It is my understanding they are using the results of DNA testing on the blood, not the blood itself. Those results will simply be copies of a computer file or copies of pieces of paper. In no way can using those results alter the evidence that might be used in a criminal trial.
CONI should ban Caisse for ignoring the ban.![]()
LugHugger said:you know, dim, that despite my earlier post, he's probably been the rider that i've most enjoyed watching over the last 5 years or so. i just can't help feeling that i would support him after he's served his ban. hypocrite? guilty, m'lud.
Deep inside you should have known who "Piti" was, right?LugHugger said:you know, dim, that despite my earlier post, he's probably been the rider that i've most enjoyed watching over the last 5 years or so. i just can't help feeling that i would support him after he's served his ban. hypocrite? guilty, m'lud.
You are probably partially correct. I don't think they participated directly but probably turned a blind eye on the situation. Think about Spain trailing in some of the biggest sports in Europe: Tennis, Soccer, Cycling, others, few years ago. I am sure they were enjoying their glory and catching up to the rest of Europe. I don't think nobody was going to be the "rat" about it.Big_Blue_Dave said:Personally, I think if CONI are right and played by the rules then Valverde should be banned for two years worldwide (though if it were up to me it would be a lifetime ban, and that is the same for any convicted doper).
I think the fact that the Spanish federation are trying to say that CONI are a bunch of cowboys (my words not theirs), and trying to keep Valverde competing says a little more about the Spanish federations mentality rather than just the riders. Could it be that the Spanish federation were systematically doping their riders and other riders on Spanish teams (I know this does not explain Basso and Ullrich, but does the majority of others)??? This to me seems a more interesting angle due to the reaction from Spanish courts to the whole affair.
Not to forget, that it was originally thought tennis players and footballers had blood bags stored with Fuentes yet none of these sports people have had their names matched to a bag? This, further enhances my point of systematic doping by Spanish sport federations with their stars to improve their performance. Especially, since the case was closed all of a sudden not once but at least twice saying it was not in their jurisdiction at the time.
Overall, i'm not surprised so many sports people were living in Spain on a permanent basis, not just for the weather or training facilities.
Escarabajo said:You are probably partially correct. I don't think they participated directly but probably turned a blind eye on the situation. Think about Spain trailing in some of the biggest sports in Europe: Tennis, Soccer, Cycling, others, few years ago. I am sure they were enjoying their glory and catching up to the rest of Europe. I don't think nobody was going to be the "rat" about it.
This is just my opinion on the situation, so let's not be so nationalistic about it. I am sure other people from other countries feel frustrated about the whole OP situation.
Thanks.
You are spot on then.Big_Blue_Dave said:If you read my initial post correctly, I do state that other sports professionals from other countries have been living in Spain for the past decade or so, including a large number of American cyclists in Girona, some British tennis players, countless football teams doing pre-season training camps and many others.
What I was saying, and yes part of it may have been implied, is that this to me looks like the Spanish authorities do indeed turn a blind eye to it but in the same way also encourage these practices by being openly inactive to stopping people who take performance enhancing drugs.
Escarabajo said:Now tell me. You know who "Cowboy" in Operacion Puerto is?