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Volta a Catalunya, should Valverde bee racing or not?

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ElChingon said:
:D One of my favorite nicknames on that list :D

Our guesses on those nicknames have been dead on so far, here's to one more!

i was under the impression cowboy was Sven Montgomery?

some very impressive mountain performances in 2001, nicknamed the cowboy in the press, and rode for... gerolsteiner along with david rebellin..
 
Mar 10, 2009
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dimspace said:
i was under the impression cowboy was Sven Montgomery?

Correct, that has been your impression. The threads I've read and been a part of (not on CN) have always alluded/guessed to the original Cowboy, not Sven!
 
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See

http://www.cadenaser.com/articulo/d...Capitulo/I/csrcsrpor/20060712csrcsrdep_8/Tes/

and

http://www.sportpro.it/doping/inchieste/operacionpuerto06.pdf

for actual Guardia Civil sources.

and

http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=4486

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operación_Puerto

for an overview in German and Spanish

Huerta has been brought in connection with Boogerd, because Huerta translates into "orchard" and Boogerd is close to the dutch "Boomgaard", which is an orchard. I think it's a little too far fetched for cyclists, given the fact that many did not get farther than choosing their pet's name.
 
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Well I suppose then that based on the “allusions” and “guesses” then it is a very definite definite who “Cowboy” must be. Game, set, match, guilty as charged….. so who are we actually talking about?
 
ElChingon said:
Time to start the CN OP thread so we can list our data for reference so the rest who are not familiar with it can read up and we don't have to rehash everything again.
It is my fault for asking for the "Cowboy". Let's get back to subject. Let's only talk about "Piti" a mean Valverde. I guess it is actually related to OP.
Well, thanks for the info.
 
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dimspace said:
Here are all 54 OP riders with their 2007 team in parenthesis:

45 active riders: Alonso, Andrle (PSK), Baranowski, Basso (Discovery*suspended), Beloki, Bernabéu (Fuertaventura), Blanco (Duja), Bonilla (Fuertaventura), Botero (Une Orbitel), Cabello (retired), Caruso (Lampre), Cherro (Fuertaventura), A.Davis (Discovery), Edo (Vitoria), D.Etxebarria, Gomis, J.E.Gutierrez (LPR), J.Ignacio Gutierrez (LPR), Hamilton (Tinkoff), Hernandez (Relax), Hruska (Relax), Jaksche (Tinkoff), E.Jimenez (Karpin), Latasa, Lloret (Fuertaventura), Mancebo (Relax), Martinez, Muñoz (Fuertaventura), Nozal (Karpin), Olmo (Andalucia), A.Osa, U.Osa, Santiago Perez (Relax), R.Plaza (Caisse d'Epargne), Pascual-rodriguez, A.Quesada, C.Quesada, N.Ribeiro (Liberty Seguros), Scarponi (Acqua e Sapone*suspended), Serrano (Karpin), Sevilla (Relax), Ullrich (retired), Vicioso (Relax), Zaballa (Caisse d'Epargne), Zarate (Saunier Duval).

4 retired in nov.2005: Casero (retired), I.G.Galdeano (technician at Euskatel), Heras (suspended), Pascual-Llorente (retired)
5 no longer accused: Ballester (Fuerteventura), Contador (Discovery), Gil (Saunier Duval), Paulinho (Discovery), LL Sanchez (Caisse dEpargne).


Out of the 45 active riders (still accused), we have 6 signed on ProTour teams, 25 signed on Continental Teams, and 14 riders was left without a contract. IPCT has decided that all OP riders hired on ProTour teams, wont get allowed to participate in any ProTour race, as long as they are still accused.

I know this list is based from 2007, but Allan Davis is also officially considered no longer accused by the Australian authorities (and hence the UCI) and that is why he now has a PT contract. He could not find a job, despite protesting his innocence and offering DNA to anyone and everyone that would test it and clear his name as soon as he was implicated, until he was officially cleared of any involvement.

I still do not understand why the likes of Contador, Gil and Sanchez were cleared so quickly. Can anyone explain why these riders were cleared of any involvement so quickly compared to others who were not allowed to race and have since been forced into retirement because they cannot find teams?
 
I am very disappointed at watching this farce being allowed to continue. Having the Italian Federation sanction Valverde was certainly not the ideal situation, but there was little choice considering the Spanish Courts continuing to drag out the investigation and the Spanish Federations subsequent refusal to take action.

If CONI has DNA evidence (and I see no reason to doubt that they do), the UCI needs to review the evidence immediately and extend Valverde's ban worldwide if CONI's claims turn out to be true.
 
elapid said:
I know this list is based from 2007, but Allan Davis is also officially considered no longer accused by the Australian authorities (and hence the UCI) and that is why he now has a PT contract. He could not find a job, despite protesting his innocence and offering DNA to anyone and everyone that would test it and clear his name as soon as he was implicated, until he was officially cleared of any involvement.

I still do not understand why the likes of Contador, Gil and Sanchez were cleared so quickly. Can anyone explain why these riders were cleared of any involvement so quickly compared to others who were not allowed to race and have since been forced into retirement because they cannot find teams?

They certainly were not cleared because the Spanish could not find any evidence. The crack investigators in Spain did not even bother to turn on any of Fuentes' computers. One of those computers probably has Fuentes' accounting records on it.

It is also funny how all the young, rising stars of Spanish cycling were on teams with organized doping programs but were somehow not involved. The whole situation is a farce.

I do not have much sympathy for Davis either. Even if, for the sake of argument, he were not doping then surely he knew what was going on. How could everyone else on his team get blood transfusions on rest days, and Davis was totally unaware of it? He is like Sgt. Schultz, "I know nothing."
 
Justice for Valverde

it's time to turn page with Operacion Puerto, we cannot be stuck at the same point for ages. There are personal and professional lifes destroyed with this. Who wants more? It has been a disaster. Then to sanction VAlverde and turn the page as the CONI seems to wish, yes wish? not at all

The cycling world is mad. Riders have their own rights, they must. It's funny to see Di Luca as leader and Petacchi winning at the Giro after their affairs meanwhile their team is half banned by organisations as ASO, then ASO invites Driguigiovanni to Fleche and Lieje and Rebellin turns positive at Olympic Games. VDB claimed recently he won Lieje 99 with EPO but everybody under same "weapons" (Bartoli, Boogerd, Camenzid, Berzin, Rebellin) it's a bit like that. Great Miguel Indurain leaved cycling prematuraly in 1996 at age 32 cause he wasn't sure the direction things were in cycling (I mean, Rijs climbing Hautacan with big gear and stuff like that). Not to mention Erik Zabel confession and the impunity of not sanctionning him. Oh, cause he was crying? because the pass of time. Then Barjne and more, more

The Golden Era of the 90's!

Contradictions are on the basis but we cannot believe in a system based in hate and suspicion, but only in proves. And I repeat, CONI wants to find Valverde guilty, rather than showing the evidence of guiltyness.

I hate doping, it's insane, moraly and phisically (Yes, Tommeke, cocaine too!) but we cannot apply rules which undermine elemental rules in this war.
 
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Aguirre: we are to believe that only Spanish riders are being targeted, and unfairly and Valverde is completely innocent?
He never contested CONI's evidence himself, only the manner by which they were obtained. Meaning he's guilty, as many others out there, he's just trying to get off on a technicality.
 
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Zoncolan said:
Aguirre: we are to believe that only Spanish riders are being targeted, and unfairly and Valverde is completely innocent?
He never contested CONI's evidence himself, only the manner by which they were obtained. Meaning he's guilty, as many others out there, he's just trying to get off on a technicality.

It's all about the "technicality", getiing away with it (headed by LA), or getting done with it ( Rasmussen '07 Tour).
 
Aguirre said:
iGreat Miguel Indurain leaved cycling prematuraly in 1996 at age 32 cause he wasn't sure the direction things were in cycling (I mean, Rijs climbing Hautacan with big gear and stuff like that).

Yeah, things were much better before 1997 and the 50% Hct limit. Aside from riders climbing in the big ring, a good student of Dr. Conconi might even take four minutes out of all his rivals in a single time trial. Good thing Indurain retired before the direction in cycling went totally south. :)
 
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BroDeal said:
So Valverde is now in the lead. What a disgrace.

And the GREEN BULLET takes a stage win and extends his lead in the overall. Make of that what you will.

IMHO, he should take his punishment and come back to delight us along with Di Luca with his agressive style.
Oh yeah, Ricco will be back too:eek:
 
Zoncolan said:
And the GREEN BULLET takes a stage win and extends his lead in the overall. Make of that what you will.

IMHO, he should take his punishment and come back to delight us along with Di Luca with his agressive style.
Oh yeah, Ricco will be back too:eek:

Nice! Obviously an unrepentant Valverde fan, here. :eek:
 
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IMHO it is very easy:

1-CONI should say why Valverde should be punished. For me this is unclear, how the heck they are linking OP with that test they did?

2-CONI should demonstrate that the evidences they have were not taken illegally and that the elemental rights of the cyclist were respected.

That should be enough for a well-deserved international ban.

If 1 and 2 are not met, then the decission belongs to the Spanish judge. He may be slow, but surely he is not biased towards supporting Valverde or covering a doping mafia. The guy wants to keep the rights of the accused, and there was not a doping law in the moment of OP in Spain. It is complex. More important judicial causes are more delayed in Spain. Ashaming but true.

Surely the Spanish Federation is quite a disgrace and should be more diligent in chasing the cheaters. But I would not blame Valverde for competing. I would do the same, what else?

PD: I am Spanish, but I tend to believe that my post would not change if I would be from another country. :eek:
 
justice for valverde

I agree with this last post, it's not about defending a rider cause nationality, but because things should be clear, and I will never understand why CONI an organisation competent just for Italians (italian territory and italian sportifs) is so interested in banning a spanish. it's very, very obscure, moved by revenge and by the desire to punish a big name in order to do justice for a whole process. Then somebody might think that if Valverde pays, then it's time to close the affaire. To who belongs this JUstice?
 
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Aguirre said:
I agree with this last post, it's not about defending a rider cause nationality, but because things should be clear, and I will never understand why CONI an organisation competent just for Italians (italian territory and italian sportifs) is so interested in banning a spanish. it's very, very obscure, moved by revenge and by the desire to punish a big name in order to do justice for a whole process. Then somebody might think that if Valverde pays, then it's time to close the affaire. To who belongs this JUstice?

I agree their motivation and their methods in obtaining evidence are suspect.
But the DNA test doesn't lie.
Why should a bag of Valverde's blood be in possession of a gynecologist?
What was he training him for? Delivering babies?
 
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Zoncolan said:
And the GREEN BULLET takes a stage win and extends his lead in the overall. Make of that what you will.

IMHO, he should take his punishment and come back to delight us along with Di Luca with his agressive style.
Oh yeah, Ricco will be back too:eek:

Someone mentioned my name?
 
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Zoncolan said:
You were busy on another thread, wanted to hear your opinion, so I thought: what's the best way to attract this guy's attention?:D

Well it was pretty loud, so I noticed instantly someone yelling out my name when I was in a different section of the CN forum. ;)

Zoncolan said:
And the GREEN BULLET takes a stage win and extends his lead in the overall. Make of that what you will.

IMHO, he should take his punishment and come back to delight us along with Di Luca with his agressive style.
Oh yeah, Ricco will be back too:eek:

In response to your quote: I couldn't agree more, if they can get a conviction. If they can't get a conviction, he is screwed anyway, because no non-Spanish organiser will invite him anymore.