Vuelta 2012, Stage 20: La Faisanera Golf-Bola del Mundo (170,7 km)

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Jul 29, 2012
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El Pistolero said:
He had a stomach bug, like half the Lotto squad.

He was good at every stage race he did this year actually. Good at Algarve, Catalunya and Dauphiné. Was with the best uphill at Pais Vasco, but ruined his GC in the time trial.

Andy is much worse considering he's much more talented. VDB2 needs to work hard for the results he gets, Andy is a huge waste of talent. These guys couldn't be any more different. If VDB2 had the talent of Andy Schleck he'd have won a couple of GTs by now.
What bothers people is that he always goes for 4th of 5th. Ok that's his level but why aim for the tour then? He'll never podium it.

He should try and aim for the giro, and honestly I don't think he's exciting at all. And he's a douch(e).

And good is always being top 10 in the other races or what?

For a guy who is 4th in the tour, you would expect more in the other races. Look at sami sanchez for example and in the classics vdb didn't do ****.

He should stop dreaming of the tour, just like Gesink btw
 
Jul 10, 2009
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I am glad that the most tactically smart move/rider won the Vuelta. After reading Tyler's book I am completely UN-impressed by "the strongest" climber or "the strongest" sprinter titles. Its all a scam! Artificial engineering. All that we have left in cycling that no one can cook up is the smarts, the right tactical move(s). The smartest not the strongest won the Vuelta and a big kudos to the Vuelta for that!
 
Jul 9, 2012
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LaFlorecita said:
This. Lol there were two flat stages and Bola.
Well he could have tried to attack on Bola today. Simple truth is he didn't need to.

Just like Wiggins didn't need to at the TDF.

I'm not criticising Contador in any way, I'm merely puzzled at your flawed logic of expecting Wiggins to attack in the TDF when he didn't need to either.
 
Corona said:
Well he could have tried to attack on Bola today. Simple truth is he didn't need to.

Just like Wiggins didn't need to at the TDF.

I'm not criticising Contador in any way, I'm merely puzzled at your flawed logic of expecting Wiggins to attack in the TDF when he didn't need to either.
Wiggins didn't lose time to Nibali in any stages, but took time from him in the mountains = stronger in the mountain, yet he didn't attack.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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Corona said:
I'm not criticising Contador in any way, I'm merely puzzled at your flawed logic of expecting Wiggins to attack in the TDF when he didn't need to either.
I think the biggest problem in the Tour wasn't Wiggins not attacking, but everyone else not being able/willing to attack. While here we actually have Rodriguez giving it a try.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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jilbiker said:
I am glad that the most tactically smart move/rider won the Vuelta. After reading Tyler's book I am completely UN-impressed by "the strongest" climber or "the strongest" sprinter titles. Its all a scam! Artificial engineering. All that we have left in cycling that no one can cook up is the smarts, the right tactical move(s). The smartest not the strongest won the Vuelta and a big kudos to the Vuelta for that!
Yeah but whose brains was it, Contador's or Riis'?
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Danilot said:
Yeah but whose brains was it, Contador's or Riis'?
THAT, is a very good question. Very good. Contador has not been as, ahem, mentally simple as some riders we see interviewed, but he has also been shown up a couple of times as not having the tactical smarts some riders have. So, in my mind, he has shown us a not-smart tactical rider. But not entirely stupid, either. However, we ARE seeing a far more experienced rider this year, and experience teachs lessons. And Riis has demonstrated a tactical ability in the past.

I say it is, at least 50%, Riis. But it was still AC who was on the road and let his intuition and his heart rule the day, and he went for it.
 
Jul 9, 2012
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Dutchsmurf said:
I think the biggest problem in the Tour wasn't Wiggins not attacking, but everyone else not being able/willing to attack. While here we actually have Rodriguez giving it a try.
This.

There are many reasons for not liking Wiggins but they belong in the clinic. I just don't understand the criticism of Wiggins/Sky for not attacking in the TDF. The onus to attack falls on those trying to take the jersey from the leader.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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shalgo said:
Strongest rider: Rodriguez > Contador > Valverde
Smartest rider: Valverde > Contador > Rodriguez
Bravest rider: Contador > Rodriguez > Valverde
Meh, I disagree. Rodriguez rode a VERY clever Vuelta. He played his strengths extremely well, saving himself and only attacking when he could make it worth something. But strongest? Only on the mountains this time.


Bravest, no - I put Rodriguez on top on that one. Contador is right up there, too, so we are talking a very small separation.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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airstream said:
ok, where would you recommend purito to take a bigger risk in the Vuelta? the man still was learning himself as an elite climber in the giro, obviously without knowing his ceiling. at last, he wasn't too much disappointed to finish the 2nd. and you dare criticise him for not having such a margin of safety as contador has or fear of self-dropping with an excessive attack?
Sorry if this has already been answered as I am still catching up on this thread.

Purito has 8 minutes or so lead on Froome in 4th place. He is 20 seconds out of second and one minute and a half out of first. He was the strongest climber of the podium today but took his shot too late.

He may not have had it to go sooner. He may have blown early if he went earlier, but for all his brilliant riding and his terrific Bola climb he gained nothing today. His placing stayed the same even though he had so much time over 4th. He *could* have risked it all and if it missed he could have salvaged third regardless.

I really like Purito and I tip my cap to him, but he may have cost himself two GTs because he didn't want to risk enough.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Corona said:
This.

There are many reasons for not liking Wiggins but they belong in the clinic. I just don't understand the criticism of Wiggins/Sky for not attacking in the TDF. The onus to attack falls on those trying to take the jersey from the leader.
While I understand the criticisms, I do not agree with them. Unlike Contador and Rodriguez, who seem to not mind accelerating and then riding a milder pace while climbing, Wiggins likes to keep his power output steady. As a result he was attacking constantly, but one just didn't notice, since it did not represent a change in tempo.
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Corona said:
This.

There are many reasons for not liking Wiggins but they belong in the clinic. I just don't understand the criticism of Wiggins/Sky for not attacking in the TDF. The onus to attack falls on those trying to take the jersey from the leader.
This. Nibali tried few attacks, but failed. And from the Top GC riders to threathen Wiggins - there was no-one else.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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The only "brave" attack Purito made was on stage 9 in my opinion. I'd like to see more stages like that instead of all these uphill walls/mountains.

A hill in the final, but a finish on the descent or flat.
 
May 19, 2011
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UpTheRoad said:
Sorry if this has already been answered as I am still catching up on this thread.

Purito has 8 minutes or so lead on Froome in 4th place. He is 20 seconds out of second and one minute and a half out of first. He was the strongest climber of the podium today but took his shot too late.

He may not have had it to go sooner. He may have blown early if he went earlier, but for all his brilliant riding and his terrific Bola climb he gained nothing today. His placing stayed the same even though he had so much time over 4th. He *could* have risked it all and if it missed he could have salvaged third regardless.

I really like Purito and I tip my cap to him, but he may have cost himself two GTs because he didn't want to risk enough.
the simple fact is he did not have a strong team to do that. Today's plan is to catch Menchov on the climb, Menchov will help him and snatch the bonus seconds. But there is nobody in Katusha can organize the chase to minimize the gap. By the time they get to the bottom of the mountain, it is already too late. Purito lost the significant time on stage 17 also because of the weak team.
 

airstream

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Mar 29, 2011
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etymology said:
perhaps - though the only way to gain experience is to do the thing in which one is inexperienced.
i understand big part of you are fans or just folks who supported attacking style in the race. i understand that great champions like contador create some standart of greatness with their risky sometimes crazy attacks. but to accuse rodriguez that he didn't attack (tho i think he really couldn't) and calling him a "stupidest cyclist ever" is a rare stupidity. don't forget what a huge difference between contador's range of cycling skills and purito's one. and i'm greatful to rodriguez for the way he made as a gt rider in this season. he gave an intrigue to this race. i strongly doubt they would have replayed this stuff better, looking at how katusha boys are 'prepared'...

yes, i'd say attack contador -not every stage, mind you - just attack when it is not expected for no other reason then...he can.
for instance? on what stage he could do something differerently? many people overrate purito since bola del mundo was not the mirrow of the whole race. i think he was on his limit too often that caused one fateful day.

at least we can be sure rodriguez stored much confidence after the vuelta and next year we will see many attacks.
 
Well based on what happened today he could certainly have dropped Bertie earlier Cuitu Negru if he'd tried. With such a small gap (unlike Wiggins on the TDF) there was a big incentive to do it (unlike Wiggins on the TDF).

Very poor tactics by Katusha, if Menchov could rid to victory today and produce the fith fastest time on Bola he surely could have been of assistance on Wednesday and if he had pulled to the max instead/with Losada JRod would probably have lost little on Bertie. It seems the DS (Piva ?) is a complete zero (wasn't that idiot on T-Mobile at some point?), he should be fired on the spot.
 
hiero2 said:
However, we ARE seeing a far more experienced rider this year, and experience teachs lessons. And Riis has demonstrated a tactical ability in the past.

I say it is, at least 50%, Riis. But it was still AC who was on the road and let his intuition and his heart rule the day, and he went for it.
I think you're on the right track.

Paulinho: "The team had originally planned to attack with three kilometres to go on the Fuente Dé. We never imagined this was going to happen."

McGee: "The plan was to have somebody in a break and when the first move went just before the feed, Bruno did a fantastic job of getting in there. I'm surprised that Katusha let anything go with one of our riders in it. It was an opportunity for us."

McGee: "On the two first climb, Jesus Hernandez, Bruno Pires and Sergio Paulinho jumped away from the pack and then Katusha seemed stunned and then Alberto simply bridged the gap alone to his teammates."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/the-day-after-the-attack-how-contador-won-in-fuente-de
 
The Hitch said:
How any cycling fan can like vdb is beyond me. We joke on schleck only riding the tour but Andy is a flipping season all rounder compared to jvdb . The big defense from his fans was - "he will ride the vuelta this year:rolleyes:"
And he went in for the lols then.pulled out because he couldn't be bothered.
it's just almost forgotten memories from the 08 giro and the 09 tour when he was an exciting young aggressive rider. not anymore tho which is why despite "liking" him, i couldn't care less if he wins or not (cept for his first win last eyar on the dauphine ofc)
 
webvan said:
Very poor tactics by Katusha, if Menchov could rid to victory today and produce the fith fastest time on Bola he surely could have been of assistance on Wednesday and if he had pulled to the max instead/with Losada JRod would probably have lost little on Bertie.
Is it poor tactics and poor planning by the DS or/and poor judgement by Rodriguez? Based on today stage, Menchov could certainly have marked the 3 Saxo riders who went ahead of Contador. :confused:
 
Jul 13, 2012
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luckyboy said:
Harmon and Kelly (and Backstedt) are the only English-language commentators I can listen to.
Agreed.Just wish Kelly would stop saying "They'll be making the calculation" I swear he said it four times in a minute today.Crazy man.(great rider no question though)
 
I thought Froome showed a very high degree of professionality in this Vuelta. Others would have soft-pedalled the whole race as soon as they saw they had no chance, but Froome dug in and fought til the end.

Well done sir.
 

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