Vuelta 2012, Stage 20: La Faisanera Golf-Bola del Mundo (170,7 km)

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Apr 11, 2009
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hiero2 said:
THAT, is a very good question. Very good. Contador has not been as, ahem, mentally simple as some riders we see interviewed, but he has also been shown up a couple of times as not having the tactical smarts some riders have. So, in my mind, he has shown us a not-smart tactical rider. But not entirely stupid, either. However, we ARE seeing a far more experienced rider this year, and experience teachs lessons. And Riis has demonstrated a tactical ability in the past.

I say it is, at least 50%, Riis. But it was still AC who was on the road and let his intuition and his heart rule the day, and he went for it.
Hiero2, that's cogently nuanced post. Seems quite close to the truth. :)
 
Apr 11, 2009
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UpTheRoad said:
He may not have had it to go sooner. He may have blown early if he went earlier, but for all his brilliant riding and his terrific Bola climb he gained nothing today. His placing stayed the same even though he had so much time over 4th. He *could* have risked it all and if it missed he could have salvaged third regardless.
I think his long years at Caisse didn't help him, because I think he was always treated as domestique there and not given chances. It's maybe ingrained into his mindset that he's second fiddle--and why he's fully satisfied when he fails.

People like Nadal and Federer absolutely hate losing. Find it far more painful than the joy of winning. Federer used to throw his GameBoy console (or whatever it was) and wreck hotel TVs regularly if he lost to his coach on GameBoy or anything. Extends to everything. Cycling is different, but Purito doesn't have this mentality.

Then again, he's a class act. No whingeing, no excuses, no pomposity.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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hiero2 said:
Wiggins likes to keep his power output steady. As a result he was attacking constantly, but one just didn't notice, since it did not represent a change in tempo.
I'm over-posting here, but that's another very apt way of seeing something. Almost a Buddhist-like koan way of looking at it. Well phrased. Thanks. :D
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Corona said:
When did Alberto attack once he'd got the leaders jersey?

I'm not knocking Contador, he is an attacking rider but once he had the leaders jersey he defended it, as most riders would.

Why on earth would you expect Wiggins (and the boring Sky train) in the TDF to attack though? It's for the other teams to attack him when he's in the leaders jersey. That nobody did is the fault of the other teams, they made it boring not Sky by failing to attack him.
Giro 2011? i though he kept attacking even though he got a wide margin lead - if I'm not mistaken?
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Danilot said:
Funny how some people whined in July because the winner of the race wasn't the strongest rider, and now they're euphoric because the winner of the race wasn't the strongest rider.

Go figure.:confused:
maybe it's "the manner how he wins it". Maybe that's the difference? Contador won it by doing long distance attack and taking risk. The whole team Sky won it for Wiggin in the mountain, by riding at high wattage. Contador might not be the strongest, (and of course his team played role in it), but he had to finish it. Wiggin might not be the strongest, but his team won it for him in the mountain. Sure he was part of the team, but it was "THE SKY TEAM" who won the tour. Wiggin just happened to be the leader. We would never know what happen if contador and andy was there? I guess we would see in next year then.
 
Danilot said:
Well, now it's 100% clear that Contador didn't win the Vuelta a España. Paulinho and Tiralongo did. Alberto was the smartest rider in the race, but certainly not the strongest one.
With comments like these u know what you are up against. Priceless. Umm...You do know AC attacked ans did a lot of pulling himself right?
 
Corona said:
Well he could have tried to attack on Bola today. Simple truth is he didn't need to.

Just like Wiggins didn't need to at the TDF.

I'm not criticising Contador in any way, I'm merely puzzled at your flawed logic of expecting Wiggins to attack in the TDF when he didn't need to either.
Did you see Alberto got dropped :rolleyes: who in your opinion should he have attacked? Machado for a 10th place :rolleyes:
 
airstream said:
i understand big part of you are fans or just folks who supported attacking style in the race. i understand that great champions like contador create some standart of greatness with their risky sometimes crazy attacks. but to accuse rodriguez that he didn't attack (tho i think he really couldn't) and calling him a "stupidest cyclist ever" is a rare stupidity. don't forget what a huge difference between contador's range of cycling skills and purito's one. and i'm greatful to rodriguez for the way he made as a gt rider in this season. he gave an intrigue to this race. i strongly doubt they would have replayed this stuff better, looking at how katusha boys are 'prepared'...


for instance? on what stage he could do something differerently? many people overrate purito since bola del mundo was not the mirrow of the whole race. i think he was on his limit too often that caused one fateful day.

at least we can be sure rodriguez stored much confidence after the vuelta and next year we will see many attacks.
I agree with you. Rodriguez rode a great race. His confidence would have been boosted from his ride in the Giro. He used his superior sprinting ability to pick up time bonuses and had one bad day in the race resulting from daring tactics and a chaotic stage. How much did the rest day affect him ? Many good riders don't perform after a rest day and there is nothing they can do, it is the way the body reacts to a change of routine. What makes people think the riders themselves don't know what they are capable of ? Rodriguez launches a daring attack and loses ten minutes does that mean he has ridden a better race ? Rodriguez does not need to be told how to ride and he is a very different rider to Contador and always will be. He should be praised for doing so well in two grand tours and improving his time trial riding as well. Criticism of Rodriguez trashes what has been a great race. Without Valverde's fall the race would have been even closer. Contador is lucky the stage was a not a few kms longer last night but his winning move came a few days earlier and he showed his ability to suffer again yesterday when it was obvious his legs were not doing what he wanted them to do. I thought all three riders on the podium should be congratulated for their performances. Froome also did well but the fatigue was too much for him.
 

iZnoGouD

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Feb 18, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Did you see Alberto got dropped :rolleyes: who in your opinion should he have attacked? Machado for a 10th place :rolleyes:
heim? you think Machado as not able of 10th place?
 
Jul 17, 2009
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No_Balls said:
With comments like these u know what you are up against. Priceless. Umm...You do know AC attacked ans did a lot of pulling himself right?
As other posters have already pointed out, in the sections where Contador was alone, he only put about 30-45 seconds into Purito, nowhere near enough to compensate for his deficit at the time and yesterday's loss on Bola del Mundo.

Fans are very happy with the fact that Contador just won the Vuelta by being the smartest rider. Fanbois, on the other hand, need to go a step further and make up fantasy stories about him being stronger than everyone else.

If Contador had been the strongest rider, he would have beaten Purito in the mano-a-manos, but he did not. What further proof do you need to see Contador wasn't the strongest, just the smartest?
 
Danilot said:
As other posters have already pointed out, in the sections where Contador was alone, he only put about 30-45 seconds into Purito, nowhere near enough to compensate for his deficit at the time and yesterday's loss on Bola del Mundo.

Fans are very happy with the fact that Contador just won the Vuelta by being the smartest rider. Fanbois, on the other hand, need to go a step further and make up fantasy stories about him being stronger than everyone else.

If Contador had been the strongest rider, he would have beaten Purito in the mano-a-manos, but he did not. What further proof do you need to see Contador wasn't the strongest, just the smartest?
I think EVERYONE over here agrees with you. I'm not sure what you're trying to show what isn't known yet.
 
And the luckiest, no crash like VV (not to mention that he's the one who cracked VV for good when he was about to bridge), extra gregario (Tiralongo, nee Ferrari on order already?), not abandoned by team like Purito...

Won't be enough in the next TDF (or other GTs for that matter, Basso anyone?) and in the 2012 TDF, Wiggo WAS the strongest since he crushed the ITTs and in the mountain probably on par with Froome who cracked twice (Toussuire and top of Peyresourde).
 
webvan said:
And the luckiest, no crash like VV (not to mention that he's the one who cracked VV for good when he was about to bridge), extra gregario (Tiralongo, nee Ferrari on order already?), not abandoned by team like Purito...

Won't be enough in the next TDF (or other GTs for that matter, Basso anyone?) and in the 2012 TDF, Wiggo WAS the strongest since he crushed the ITTs and in the mountain probably on par with Froome who cracked twice (Toussuire and top of Peyresourde).
No but in next TDF Alberto will be better :)
 
Aug 4, 2010
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Descender said:
I thought Froome showed a very high degree of professionality in this Vuelta. Others would have soft-pedalled the whole race as soon as they saw they had no chance, but Froome dug in and fought til the end.

Well done sir.
Yes,big time performace despite fading.I like Froome much more after this Vuelta,actually he is already one of my favorite riders:)
 
Danilot said:
As other posters have already pointed out, in the sections where Contador was alone, he only put about 30-45 seconds into Purito, nowhere near enough to compensate for his deficit at the time and yesterday's loss on Bola del Mundo.
Reading the interview from yesterday it looks more and more like that timeloss was deliberate. He says he had studied the timedifference from 2010and knew it wouldn´t be so big. Although he might not had his best day, i dont think he was worried with the loss either.

If Contador had been the strongest rider, he would have beaten Purito in the mano-a-manos, but he did not. What further proof do you need to see Contador wasn't the strongest, just the smartest?
Throw in another timetrial and we could talk. AC won on the road were Purito won on the uphill sprint finishes (which he´d won anyways).

And the luckiest, no crash like VV (not to mention that he's the one who cracked VV for good when he was about to bridge), extra gregario (Tiralongo, nee Ferrari on order already?), not abandoned by team like Purito...
So it is considered "luck" when your team doesnt abandon you?:D

Considering Tiralongo is this the smartness of acting like a genuin patrón. If Purito hadn´t sprint like it would be his last stage in life and acted like AC from time to time, maybe...
 
No_Balls said:
Reading the interview from yesterday it looks more and more like that timeloss was deliberate. He says he had studied the timedifference from 2010and knew it wouldn´t be so big. Although he might not had his best day, i dont think he was worried with the loss either.



Throw in another timetrial and we could talk. AC won on the road were Purito won on the uphill sprint finishes (which he´d won anyways).



So it is considered "luck" when your team doesnt abandon you?:D

Considering Tiralongo is this the smartness of acting like a genuin patrón. If Purito hadn´t sprint like it would be his last stage in life and acted like AC from time to time, maybe...
Well obviously he was not worried about the time loss with one stage to go but even if he did calculate on losing a certain amount of time, it was obvious Contador was in trouble. He was bouncing all of the road and did not look good at all. He was struggling. The look of relief when he hit the line says it all.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Danilot said:
As other posters have already pointed out, in the sections where Contador was alone, he only put about 30-45 seconds into Purito, nowhere near enough to compensate for his deficit at the time and yesterday's loss on Bola del Mundo.

Fans are very happy with the fact that Contador just won the Vuelta by being the smartest rider. Fanbois, on the other hand, need to go a step further and make up fantasy stories about him being stronger than everyone else.

If Contador had been the strongest rider, he would have beaten Purito in the mano-a-manos, but he did not. What further proof do you need to see Contador wasn't the strongest, just the smartest?

Smartest, strongest? Doesn't matter, He won the race, plain and simple. It is a tour over 3 weeks, he did it in less time, if Purito could have caught him he would have. Done
 
No_Balls said:
With comments like these u know what you are up against. Priceless. Umm...You do know AC attacked ans did a lot of pulling himself right?
Don't bother...people often are trying very hard to somehow compensate that their favorite rider didn't win and/or a rider they don't like did. Down talking of the actual winner is a big part of it and reasonable points don't have much room in those discussions :cool:
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Jelantik said:
Giro 2011? i though he kept attacking even though he got a wide margin lead - if I'm not mistaken?
Well after attacking all race long, you get to the Bola Mundo with a lead over 2 minutes over Rodriguez, I may not attack either. Probably the only mtf finish he didn't attack. Probably thought its the only time I can relax, if you call that relaxing. It may not be the way we wanted him to win but he did say, his focus was Madrid.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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JimPanzen said:
Don't bother...people often are trying very hard to somehow compensate that their favorite rider didn't win and/or a rider they don't like did.
And some people manage to delude themselves into thinking their favourite rider was the strongest man even after seeing him lose every single mano-a-mano against the other rider.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Danilot said:
And some people manage to delude themselves into thinking their favourite rider was the strongest man even after seeing him lose every single mano-a-mano against the other rider.
Well, read the quote from Rodriguez in Cycling News today, he even states that Contador was the strongest......
 
Jul 17, 2009
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casati said:
Well, read the quote from Rodriguez in Cycling News today, he even states that Contador was the strongest......
What did you expect him to say, "Contador was weaker than me in this Vuelta, so he needed Paulinho, Hernández and Tiralongo to win the race for him"?

There's something called "diplomacy". You must be very naive if you think riders always mean exactly what they say.
 

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