Vuelta 2017 stage 19 Caso (Parque de Redes) - Gijón 149.7 km

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Contador isn't troubling the leader. Sky is fine with him taking 30 seconds. That doesn't hurt them. Sunweb might lose a podium if they lose 30 seconds. You only let the leader chase when the leader is indeed chasing. If Sunweb does nothing they lose double: Sky isn't wasting energy and the guy in the break is gaining time.

It amazes me how this cycling tactic 101 fails to register with half the people on this board...

They do know it logically makes sense, but don't want to miss out on an opportunity to call a rider/team names for chasing riders/teams they like.

Sky was gonna chase anyway. Anyway, you 2 are going to the ignore list.

You forgot your dummy.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Vuelta 2017 stage 19 Caso (Parque de Redes) - Gijón 149.

Has Flecha ever not said "What a stage" at the beginning of his stage analysis.

 

[Eclipse]

Re:

Frustrating thing is (I know it's all ifs and buts) if Contador hadn't been ill on that Andorra stage, he'd currently be a minute down on Froome and on current form I'd be backing him to win the GC tomorrow.. as it is he's gonna go early, no way is he just aiming for the podium tomorrow..

If Contador hadn't shipped a bunch of time he'd not have been given half the leeway he's been given in the first place. Legendary rider but people really do stretch it at times

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Contador isn't troubling the leader. Sky is fine with him taking 30 seconds. That doesn't hurt them. Sunweb might lose a podium if they lose 30 seconds. You only let the leader chase when the leader is indeed chasing. If Sunweb does nothing they lose double: Sky isn't wasting energy and the guy in the break is gaining time.

It amazes me how this cycling tactic 101 fails to register with half the people on this board...

They do know it logically makes sense, but don't want to miss out on an opportunity to call a rider/team names for chasing riders/teams they like.

Sky was gonna chase anyway. Anyway, you 2 are going to the ignore list.

Because they disagreed with you? Grow up you big baby.

 

[GraftPunk]

i understand Sunweb's need to protect the podium, but I'm going to miss Contie's panache and attacking style when he's gone, and would enjoy him to reap some benefits. if only to show up and coming riders you don't have to be a robot.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Contador isn't troubling the leader. Sky is fine with him taking 30 seconds. That doesn't hurt them. Sunweb might lose a podium if they lose 30 seconds. You only let the leader chase when the leader is indeed chasing. If Sunweb does nothing they lose double: Sky isn't wasting energy and the guy in the break is gaining time.

It amazes me how this cycling tactic 101 fails to register with half the people on this board...

They do know it logically makes sense, but don't want to miss out on an opportunity to call a rider/team names for chasing riders/teams they like.

Sky was gonna chase anyway. Anyway, you 2 are going to the ignore list.

Please add me to it also

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Frustrating thing is (I know it's all ifs and buts) if Contador hadn't been ill on that Andorra stage, he'd currently be a minute down on Froome and on current form I'd be backing him to win the GC tomorrow.. as it is he's gonna go early, no way is he just aiming for the podium tomorrow..

Legendary rider but

Condensed it for you

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Contador isn't troubling the leader. Sky is fine with him taking 30 seconds. That doesn't hurt them. Sunweb might lose a podium if they lose 30 seconds. You only let the leader chase when the leader is indeed chasing. If Sunweb does nothing they lose double: Sky isn't wasting energy and the guy in the break is gaining time.

It amazes me how this cycling tactic 101 fails to register with half the people on this board...

They do know it logically makes sense, but don't want to miss out on an opportunity to call a rider/team names for chasing riders/teams they like.

Sky was gonna chase anyway. Anyway, you 2 are going to the ignore list.

Because they disagreed with you? Grow up you big baby.

No, because they weren't responding in a friendly way, looking extremely condescending.
And stop insulting, btw.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Contador isn't troubling the leader. Sky is fine with him taking 30 seconds. That doesn't hurt them. Sunweb might lose a podium if they lose 30 seconds. You only let the leader chase when the leader is indeed chasing. If Sunweb does nothing they lose double: Sky isn't wasting energy and the guy in the break is gaining time.

It amazes me how this cycling tactic 101 fails to register with half the people on this board...

They do know it logically makes sense, but don't want to miss out on an opportunity to call a rider/team names for chasing riders/teams they like.

Sky was gonna chase anyway. Anyway, you 2 are going to the ignore list.

You forgot your dummy.

Haha. You don't have a reply so the only type of answer you can give is this, trying to insult people. :lol:

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Other teams chasing Contador :lol:

Well duh. It's their direct competitor?

 

[joeyrobbo]

Re: Re:

Frustrating thing is (I know it's all ifs and buts) if Contador hadn't been ill on that Andorra stage, he'd currently be a minute down on Froome and on current form I'd be backing him to win the GC tomorrow.. as it is he's gonna go early, no way is he just aiming for the podium tomorrow..

If Contador hadn't shipped a bunch of time he'd not have been given half the leeway he's been given in the first place. Legendary rider but people really do stretch it at times

That's assuming Froome could respond.. on some stages maybe, but he clearly isn't at his peak right now, no way that he could have held Contador's wheel on Stage 17, managed it yesterday though.. either way tomorrow I'm hoping for a high pace which leaves the main GC riders isolated early on, and let them fight it out, strongest wins..

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Sad and embarrassing? If it was for 10th or 7th place I might agree.
But this is for a *** GT podium. Are you for real? I mean I understand the contador love, I really do. But cmon, be real. BE REAL.

 

[ontheroad]

The sky dominance of the last 2 grand tours has been frightening. Stage after stage on the climbs riding on the front with 5/6 riders

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

i would love to see teams reduced to like 6 riders.

Then you might as well not have teams at all..... and most teams will consist completely of all-rounders (Poels/Kwiat types), because there is no longer room for specialists.

Yeah because a team of 6 is the same as no team

I think that a 6 man team is foolish, but at the same time of course it is still a useful team.
One of the main problems with a 6 man team is that nearly all stages will end in a breakaway, perhaps even including sprinting stages. A relatively large breakaway will be too hard to pull back. You will end up, perhaps, with 15 stages where the break have a meaningless sprint for victory where no-one really cares - or remembers - who wins.

Sprinters will also have a nightmare as their teams not only will struggle to reel in the breakaway but, if the sprinter has a climber in the team, the team won't commit any riders for the sprinter. Think about Cavendish in the Sky 2012 squad who had Bernie Eisel and EBH for support. Though Sky didn't commit to bringing back the breaks usually (something which upset Cavendish), those two support riders were crucial for Cav. If Sky had had a 6 man team Eisel wouldn't have been brought with and EBH, even if he still made the team, wouldn't have been allowed to help Cav. This is quite an extreme example, obviously, as Sky's team that year was ridiculously strong, but the example is true for many teams in recent times, such as Sagan when he raced for Liquigas.

There are other factors too which must be considered, such as the fact that teams would drop a lot of their good sprinters and choose more rounded domestiques who can help in the mountains (as Brocco pointed out) and the fact that if a team loses 3 riders or more they will be left with virtually no riders (which is quite easy in a 3 week GT - Dimension Data, Sunweb and AG2R have already lost 4 this Vuelta and BMC, Movistar and Katusha have lost 3).

So overall, it would be ridiculous to have only 6 riders in a team for a GT. However, I am quite excited to see a GT with 8 riders in each team (though I doubt it will be so different from 9 riders).

 

[HelloDolly]

Why did Pantano not fall back on the climb

 

[deValtos]

Re:

The sky dominance of the last 2 grand tours has been frightening. Stage after stage on the climbs riding on the front with 5/6 riders

Imagine if Rosa has actually showed up to this Vuelta.

Maybe he'll come into it next year as riders often do on Sky but he's certainly not at his level of last year.

 

[Climber123]

Re:

The sky dominance of the last 2 grand tours has been frightening. Stage after stage on the climbs riding on the front with 5/6 riders

They will disappear tomorrow on a real climb

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Why did Pantano not fall back on the climb

Because he was racing for the stage win

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

i understand Sunweb's need to protect the podium, but I'm going to miss Contie's panache and attacking style when he's gone, and would enjoy him to reap some benefits. if only to show up and coming riders you don't have to be a robot.

There are plenty of attackers coming up, so someone will fill the shoes

Aru, Chaves, Lopez, Landa and Yates x2, are some of the young up and coming riders, that generally attack early..... and we'll still have the likes of Dan Martin, Pinot and other early aggressors around, for a few more years.

I'm not worried - but yeah, I will miss Bertie, he was/is a great rider.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Why did Pantano not fall back on the climb

Because he was racing for the stage win

But there was no guarantee of that ...he looked only ok on the climbs

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Sad and embarrassing to see Sunweb working so hard.
In situations like this, you always let the leader and his team chase.

Sad and embarrassing? If it was for 10th or 7th place I might agree.
But this is for a **** GT podium. Are you for real? I mean I understand the contador love, I really do. But cmon, be real. BE REAL.

I completely agree with you. (Which is rare when the conversation is related to Dutch riders or teams).

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

i would love to see teams reduced to like 6 riders.

Then you might as well not have teams at all..... and most teams will consist completely of all-rounders (Poels/Kwiat types), because there is no longer room for specialists.

Yeah because a team of 6 is the same as no team

I think that a 6 man team is foolish, but at the same time of course it is still a useful team.
One of the main problems with a 6 man team is that nearly all stages will end in a breakaway, perhaps even including sprinting stages. A relatively large breakaway will be too hard to pull back. You will end up, perhaps, with 15 stages where the break have a meaningless sprint for victory where no-one really cares - or remembers - who wins.

Sprinters will also have a nightmare as their teams not only will struggle to reel in the breakaway but, if the sprinter has a climber in the team, the team won't commit any riders for the sprinter. Think about Cavendish in the Sky 2012 squad who had Bernie Eisel and EBH for support. Though Sky didn't commit to bringing back the breaks usually (something which upset Cavendish), those two support riders were crucial for Cav. If Sky had had a 6 man team Eisel wouldn't have been brought with and EBH, even if he still made the team, wouldn't have been allowed to help Cav. This is quite an extreme example, obviously, as Sky's team that year was ridiculously strong, but the example is true for many teams in recent times, such as Sagan when he raced for Liquigas.

There are other factors too which must be considered, such as the fact that teams would drop a lot of their good sprinters and choose more rounded domestiques who can help in the mountains (as Brocco pointed out) and the fact that if a team loses 3 riders or more they will be left with virtually no riders (which is quite easy in a 3 week GT - Dimension Data, Sunweb and AG2R have already lost 4 this Vuelta and BMC, Movistar and Katusha have lost 3).

So overall, it would be ridiculous to have only 6 riders in a team for a GT. However, I am quite excited to see a GT with 8 riders in each team (though I doubt it will be so different from 9 riders).

Who cares about sprinters? If they want to sprint they should go to track

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Why did Pantano not fall back on the climb

Because he was racing for the stage win

But there was no guarantee of that ...he looked only ok on the climbs

Yes but as long as he wasn't completely out of it there was no point in dropping back... he and the team knew he would have a good chance in a sprint.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

i understand Sunweb's need to protect the podium, but I'm going to miss Contie's panache and attacking style when he's gone, and would enjoy him to reap some benefits. if only to show up and coming riders you don't have to be a robot.

There are plenty of attackers coming up, so someone will fill the shoes

Aru, Chaves, Lopez, Landa and Yates x2, are some of the young up and coming riders, that generally attack early..... and we'll still have the likes of Dan Martin, Pinot and other early aggressors around, for a few more years.

I'm not worried - but yeah, I will miss Bertie, he was/is a great rider.

None of them are as fearless and brave as Alberto

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

i understand Sunweb's need to protect the podium, but I'm going to miss Contie's panache and attacking style when he's gone, and would enjoy him to reap some benefits. if only to show up and coming riders you don't have to be a robot.

There are plenty of attackers coming up, so someone will fill the shoes

Aru, Chaves, Lopez, Landa and Yates x2, are some of the young up and coming riders, that generally attack early..... and we'll still have the likes of Dan Martin, Pinot and other early aggressors around, for a few more years.

I'm not worried - but yeah, I will miss Bertie, he was/is a great rider.

Adam Yates? Nope.
And as much as I like Aru, he waited the whole way on the Peyragudes and Puy en Velay stage just like the others.
Also I think Simon Yates shouldn't concentrate on GTs unless he finds an extremely suitable route with many hilly stages and almost no real mountain stages.