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Vuelta a España 2022: Pre-race discussion/hype tread

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pman

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tobydawq said:
Obviously, average speed doesn't have anything to do with the GC winners... How big a percentage of the time do you think they are in front of the field, driving the pace?

Besides that, you don't have to convince me that it was an impressive win. No doubt about that, but it certainly has nothing to do with average speed.

I think average speed benefits from shorter stages and aerodynamic evolution.
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Yeah I mostly agree. However, it does seem like the great champions often win very fast Tours. Certainty there is a correlation of ability and being able to finish towards the front of a super fast moving peloton day in and day out. Yes, the course wasn't super hard. Yes, they raced hard just about every day however Ving had to go that speed and still not pay the price with a bad day. Everyone else in the race had bad days, the overall race speed had to contribute to that.

Plus, while we're talking about conditions nobody mentions the heat. Surely the heat wore down many riders. Not Ving or his teammates but it definitely hurt the others.

So sure, race speed isn't the greatest sign of a big win but you can't ignore it either.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

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pman said:
Yeah I mostly agree. However, it does seem like the great champions often win very fast Tours. Certainty there is a correlation of ability and being able to finish towards the front of a super fast moving peloton day in and day out. Yes, the course wasn't super hard. Yes, they raced hard just about every day however Ving had to go that speed and still not pay the price with a bad day. Everyone else in the race had bad days, the overall race speed had to contribute to that.

Plus, while we're talking about conditions nobody mentions the heat. Surely the heat wore down many riders. Not Ving or his teammates but it definitely hurt the others.

So sure, race speed isn't the greatest sign of a big win but you can't ignore it either.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can. Sorry if I sound disrespectful but I honestly don't see any relevance at all regarding average speed and the greatness of a win.
 
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tobydawq said:
Yes, you can. Sorry if I sound disrespectful but I honestly don't see any relevance at all regarding average speed and the greatness of a win.
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I don't think you're being disrespectful at all. We just disagree. Well, we just slightly disagree. I mostly agree with you. I am just a little less dismissive of overall race speed than you are. I think overall race speed is much less important than margin of victory, quality of competition, consistent top finishes and stage wins, etc. However, I think it's worth mentioning.


I am just trying to make sense of it of Ving's win.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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tobydawq said:
Obviously, average speed doesn't have anything to do with the GC winners... How big a percentage of the time do you think they are in front of the field, driving the pace?

Besides that, you don't have to convince me that it was an impressive win. No doubt about that, but it certainly has nothing to do with average speed.

I think average speed benefits from shorter stages and aerodynamic evolution.
Click to expand...
It's an indicator for peloton strength, and thus also for the strength of the winner. It's not the best, but it is still informative.
 
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CyclistAbi

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pman said:
I am just trying to make sense of it of Ving's win.
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It more or less came down to JV utilizing the numbers game on stage 11. There was no recovering from that.

Against Pogačar you obviously need to use at least two potential Tour winners. For it to work. Without it Pogačar would likely be stronger on more or less all finishes and would likely gain enough seconds to still manage just fine. That is if Vingegaard would gain a couple of seconds on some hard climb. But likely that would not happen as Pogačar would attack much less and would hence at minimum have the legs to follow. It would be up to Vingegaard to attack as Vingegaard would be behind.

Said that Pogačar could still ride too aggressively. Believing he could drop Vingegaard. And to pay the price for that. We will see on some races to come. On how they will perform against each other mano-a-mano. On top of that plenty of Tour editions ahead. For them to sort it out. Doing that while lets say Roglič takes the win. We'll see.
 
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CyclistAbi said:
It more or less came down to JV utilizing the numbers game on stage 11. There was no recovering from that.

Against Pogačar you obviously need to use at least two potential Tour winners. For it to work. Without it Pogačar would likely be stronger on more or less all finishes and would likely gain enough seconds to still manage just fine. That is if Vingegaard would gain a couple of seconds on some hard climb. But likely that would not happen as Pogačar would attack much less and would hence at minimum have the legs to follow. It would be up to Vingegaard to attack as Vingegaard would be behind.

Said that Pogačar could still ride too aggressively. Believing he could drop Vingegaard. And to pay the price for that. We will see on some races to come. On how they will perform against each other mano-a-mano. On top of that plenty of Tour editions ahead. For them to sort it out. Doing that while lets say Roglič takes the win. We'll see.
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Yeah, I guess Pog's countless attacks and how much it took out of him is the mystery . But well said, it'll take a while to truly sort out where Pog and Vingegaard stack up against one another.
 
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Tonton said:
That's when I was about to leave :).
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I am sure a lot of us were in the same boat during that period. I owe my wife for rediscovering my love the sport. During Froome's 2nd or 3rd Tour win I had the race on the TV. My wife had never seen a bike race and became captivated. After that, it became the sport of our house. To bring it full circle---Roglic is her favorite rider so for her sake I hope he rides the Vuelta.
 
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Tonton

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pman said:
I am sure a lot of us were in the same boat during that period. I owe my wife for rediscovering my love the sport. During Froome's 2nd or 3rd Tour win I had the race on the TV. My wife had never seen a bike race and became captivated. After that, it became the sport of our house. To bring it full circle---Roglic is her favorite rider so for her sake I hope he rides the Vuelta.
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Roglic 100% will win this bike race, and, as we know, happy wife...

This could be a super entertaining GT, depending on how it's raced different riders can stake a claim in the end. For the win, for the podium, there will be a fight. Roglic 90% would have to put up with a dumpster fire, not sure that he can get out of it on top.

Vai Vincenzo!
 
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CyclistAbi

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pman said:
Yeah, I guess Pog's countless attacks and how much it took out of him is the mystery . But well said, it'll take a while to truly sort out where Pog and Vingegaard stack up against one another.
Click to expand...

After stage 11 he had to do it. As he was way behind. Before stage 11 he was in my opinion a bit to eager. But it would likely still have worked. If JV wouldn't have Roglič. At stage 11 he likely paid the price for not taking Almeida.

Will be interesting though. What happens next year if JV repeats this tactics successfully. To chase them down both again or to let one go and wait for his team. With Almeida likely not being that far behind.

We'll see.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Tonton said:
Roglic 100% will win this bike race, and, as we know, happy wife...

This could be a super entertaining GT, depending on how it's raced different riders can stake a claim in the end. For the win, for the podium, there will be a fight. Roglic 90% would have to put up with a dumpster fire, not sure that he can get out of it on top.

Vai Vincenzo!
Click to expand...

Without Rogla we could again get some Giro 22 vibes. Some mano-a-mano action but without the balls.

With Rogla involved Kuss would not allow that.
 
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75Driver said:
If yours is like mine ... who they ride for, how good they are, etc has nothing to do with what rider they like. Mine picks her favorites based on colours. :p

EDIT: during the Giro her favorite rider is the one wearing pink.
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Well, I think I used to like Quickstep because I loved their blue hombre jerseys, lol so we're simply like that I guess. That is definitely not my wife. She has gotten into just about every part of the sport. She loves the strategy, the history of the towns on the course, the athleticism. She doesn't have the time to watch many races out of the summer months but come summer time, she's into it. Which says something because she hates most sports. Cycling is an odd sport like that though. It's 1/3rd athletic competition, 1/3rd travelogue and 1/3rd history lesson.
 
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gregrowlerson

gregrowlerson

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Looking at the parcours again, and I really like it, at least as far as Vuelta's go. Can't expect too many opportunities for attacks before the final climb, given Spain's geographical limitations. But what we have is a well paced race. Solid first week, queen stage in second week (I think), and a couple of very interesting stages in week 3. I know that many are complaining about that third week, but if there were another couple of mountain stages the complaints would be about it being back loaded! So yeah, this parcours is very solid imo. Even the ITT is PERFECTLY placed on stage 10 (after the rest day), though it could do with some more kms. Or just make stage 1 another ITT and the course is an 8/10 (9/10 for a Vuelta).
 
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