Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 17: Aracena - Monasterio de Tentudía, 162.3k

[SHAD0W93]

He also has pulled off many GT podiums, won stages in all Grand Tours, gotten a medal at the Olympics and is an infinitely more charismatic figure than Zubeldia and one of the most beloved riders in Colombia, if not the most popular outright.

He even won on the WorldTour (ProTour) as an almost-teenager way before that was cool.

And think there was posters in 2012 that thought he’d be the weakest Colombian career wise.

 

[gunara]

Saint Primoz vs Remco the Messiah makes a good troll weeks. You won't really see it with Vinge vs Pog in this side of the forum.

 

[tobydawq]

Sure, but that was a long time ago. In his later career he's been absolutely super-ninja, which is all the more striking when you consider what he was from 2008 through to about 2015. In recent years he's been dressed in neon pink and sat in GC top 10s all year round, but if you removed him from the race not even Vaughters would have noticed he was missing. I thought the side of him that we saw today had been lost to time and he was going into the same late career void of ninjadom as Samuel Sánchez did, so it was nice to see he is still capable of this.

You don't get second in the Tour without impacting the race. That is as irrational an opinion as what you're criticising people for criticising Mas for.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Of course you dont Toby, but surely he didn't really impact the race much at all compared to other 2nd places throughout history?

 

[tobydawq]

Of course you dont Toby, but surely he didn't really impact the race much at all compared to other 2nd places throughout history?

No, but "nobody would have noticed if he hadn't been there" is just lame and typical LS exaggeration.

I do agree that he didn't launch a single attack in the race but that's not the same, and he was certainly more noticeable than Zubeldia ever was (even if he also rode quite well in 2003).

 

[Wvv]

Which part of "he's completely unproven in GT's" didn't you understand?

Leading the Vuelta for two full weeks, still quite in control at the top of the GC into stage 18.

"Completely unproven."

Ok.

 

[Gargamel35]

Leading the Vuelta for two full weeks, still quite in control at the top of the GC into stage 18.

"Completely unproven."

Ok.

Yes, completely unproven. He didn't finish any of it yet.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, but "nobody would have noticed if he hadn't been there" is just lame and typical LS exaggeration.

I do agree that he didn't launch a single attack in the race but that's not the same, and he was certainly more noticeable than Zubeldia ever was (even if he also rode quite well in 2003).

And in the five years since, he's been absolutely a ninja master.

Saying Rigo hasn't spent the last few years being a dull ninja because of races like the London Olympics and the 2014 Giro is like counting Tom Dumoulin as a GC contender this season. Yes, the guy once was very much that, but he also very much isn't in 2022.

 

[tobydawq]

And in the five years since, he's been absolutely a ninja master.

Saying Rigo hasn't spent the last few years being a dull ninja because of races like the London Olympics and the 2014 Giro is like counting Tom Dumoulin as a GC contender this season. Yes, the guy once was very much that, but he also very much isn't in 2022.

He won the TT in Suisse last year. He was following Pogacar and Carapaz on Mont Ventoux and was 2nd in the Tour until the last week in 2021. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Of course he isn't the most flashy rider considering his riding style but his persona also has a role to play if you want to go down the Zubeldia road.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He won the TT in Suisse last year. He was following Pogacar and Carapaz on Mont Ventoux and was 2nd in the Tour until the last week in 2021. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Of course he isn't the most flashy rider considering his riding style but his persona also has a role to play if you want to go down the Zubeldia road.

And in 2020 and 2021 he was placed really high in the Tour, always by following and barely ever visible or picked up on camera. Despite wearing neon pink. The 2020 Tour was when I first raised the "if you took him out the race nobody would notice" comment, and since then he has done nothing to change that until yesterday. Just "being in a high GC position" doesn't preclude ninjadom if the only thing you did to get there was ninjadom. Since, you know, that's the entire point of ninjadom.

The only reason his last few seasons are saved from absolute ninja status is his off-bike persona, and the fact that he's simply a better bike racer than post-2006 Zubeldia, so he can achieve higher results and will occasionally be picked up on camera as a result.

 

[tobydawq]

And in 2020 and 2021 he was placed really high in the Tour, always by following and barely ever visible or picked up on camera. Despite wearing neon pink. The 2020 Tour was when I first raised the "if you took him out the race nobody would notice" comment, and since then he has done nothing to change that until yesterday. Just "being in a high GC position" doesn't preclude ninjadom if the only thing you did to get there was ninjadom. Since, you know, that's the entire point of ninjadom.

The only reason his last few seasons are saved from absolute ninja status is his off-bike persona, and the fact that he's simply a better bike racer than post-2006 Zubeldia, so he can achieve higher results and will occasionally be picked up on camera as a result.

What on Earth does his wearing neon pink have anything to do with this? And yes, he has been visible or picked up on camera. He may not have gotten too much wind on his nose, though.

 

[staubsauger]

Arensman's 3rd week revival has been short lived. Nearly lost a minute on a short climb. He was about to overtake Almeida in GC but now the gap is 55s again. I think Almeida will finish stronger the next days. On the other hand, i'm sure Arensman will take his Sierra Nevada win over Almeida's 6th spot in GC any day of the week.

Average age of top 8 in GC is 23.6 years old.

He's not really punchy though.

How he does the 2023 Giro d'Italia probably shapes the pattern for Arensman as a general classification rider!

 

[Gigs_98]

He won the TT in Suisse last year. He was following Pogacar and Carapaz on Mont Ventoux and was 2nd in the Tour until the last week in 2021. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Of course he isn't the most flashy rider considering his riding style but his persona also has a role to play if you want to go down the Zubeldia road.

While this is true I'm honestly amazed how I didn't remember any of it, which kinda proves @Libertine Seguros point...

 

[tobydawq]

While this is true I'm honestly amazed how I didn't remember any of it, which kinda proves @Libertine Seguros point...

Or it kinda doesn't.

 

[Gigs_98]

Or it kinda doesn't.

Ok then let's play this differently. What so you think was Uran's Most memorable action in recent years? Not a result, but an attack or something like that.

 

[tobydawq]

Ok then let's play this differently. What so you think was Uran's Most memorable action in recent years? Not a result, but an attack or something like that.

What does that have to with anything? He hasn't been attacking which we all three very well know. That doesn't make him a Zubeldia. Unless Induráin was a Zubeldia as well, I guess.

 

[dercuforever]

I was talking about Vuelta 2022, so all your writing at the start is false.

Remco lost time in w2 and would keep loosing time, it was clear.

In W2, Remco took 48 seconds on the ITT.
Stage 12 he was as good as Roglic (which did not even attack IRRC).
Stage 13 he fell.
Stage 14 he did lose time the day after going down yes.
Stage 15 he was back to being as good if not stronger than Roglic, he only lost 15 seconds because he rode in front of him for 10 kms on 5% slopes.

Nothing here suggest Roglic would take back 1min40 in W3.
Stage 16 Roglic looked good, until he did not.
Stage 17 Roglic lost 137 places in GC the day after going down.

 

[Gargamel35]

In W2, Remco took 48 seconds on the ITT.
Stage 12 he was as good as Roglic (which did not even attack IRRC).
Stage 13 he fell.
Stage 14 he did lose time the day after going down yes.
Stage 15 he was back to being as good if not stronger than Roglic, he only lost 15 seconds because he rode in front of him for 10 kms on 5% slopes.

Nothing here suggest Roglic would take back 1min40 in W3.
Stage 16 Roglic looked good, until he did not.
Stage 17 Roglic lost 137 places in GC the day after going down.

Lol. So stage 15 Remco was god like, stronger then Roglič and yet lost time. Nice try bro.
Stage 16 he was loosing bucket of time if he didn't rise the hand (sure) and R. wouldn't crash.
It's funny how Remco looses time, yet homers see this as being better then the others. I guess he can win TdF too, despite being 5 - 10 minutes behind the leader. A true god of GC cycling.

 

[dercuforever]

Lol. So stage 15 Remco was god like, stronger then Roglič and yet lost time. Nice try bro.
Stage 16 he was loosing bucket of time if he didn't rise the hand (sure) and R. wouldn't crash.
It's funny how Remco looses time, yet homers see this as being better then the others. I guess he can win TdF too, despite being 5 - 10 minutes behind the leader. A true god of GC cycling.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566508110868537348

View: https://twitter.com/NaichacaCycling/status/1566508110868537348

You seem to hate the kid. Try to enjoy racing, you can be a fan of someone without hating all his opponents.

 

[Gargamel35]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566508110868537348

View: https://twitter.com/NaichacaCycling/status/1566508110868537348

You seem to hate the kid. Try to enjoy racing, you can be a fan of someone without hating all his opponents.

You just posted that out of shape Roglič was better then in shape Remco. But yes, probably a bit injured too. Not better by any stretch of imagination.
I love the guy and hope he can bring it against Vinge and Pog one day! I hate homers who picture him as someone on the level or better then Vinge/Pog/Rog in their best forms. And that is simply not true. Yet. Roglič will take himself out of this fight anyway. If not by age, he's going to find a wheel/tree/hole to crash on. But Vinge/Pog are a different level.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You just posted that out of shape Roglič was better then in shape Remco.

He posted that an injured Evenepoel was better than out of shape Roglic. Read what it says. Evenepoel pushed bigger watts per kilo than Roglic, because Roglic got a big advantage by sitting in the wheel.

 

[Gargamel35]

He posted that an injured Evenepoel was better than out of shape Roglic. Read what it says. Evenepoel pushed bigger watts per kilo than Roglic, because Roglic got a big advantage by sitting in the wheel.

And why would that be a problem? He could ride differently, he could follow Roglič wheel, etc. But he couldn't, because he was doing tempo and preventing attacks. And he lost time. That doesn't make him better then R. in any way.