Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 17: Aracena - Monasterio de Tentudía, 162.3k

[Libertine Seguros]

Mas' negative reputation is absolutely destroying him, he needs a new PR team. "Mas won't attack, he's boring" Mas attacks and gains time on all GC contenders "Mas should have attacked more and sooner, he's boring" Mas attacks unsuccessfully "Mas' attack was ineffective, he's boring". The guy is already a dead ringer as a rider for Carlos Sastre, he'd probably have to turn into the reincarnation of Don Limpio's brother-in-law to shake his reputation at this point.

But this overshadows the most important thing today: we actually saw Haimar Zubeldia win a race. My mind is blown.

 

[Escarabajo]

Mas' negative reputation is absolutely destroying him, he needs a new PR team. "Mas won't attack, he's boring" Mas attacks and gains time on all GC contenders "Mas should have attacked more and sooner, he's boring" Mas attacks unsuccessfully "Mas' attack was ineffective, he's boring".

But this overshadows the most important thing today: we actually saw Haimar Zubeldia win a race. My mind is blown.

Movistar doesn't help. And the fact that they are fighting for UCI points makes it even worse.

 

[fox]

I was talking about Vuelta 2022, so all your writing at the start is false.

Remco lost time in w2 and would keep loosing time, it was clear.

He only lost time because of the crash. Today he was the best of the peloton. Saturday was an obvious offday. Even Ayouso was better than Evenepoel. The others were not getting better. It was just Evenepoel Who needed to recover from his crash. He has done that now and wont get dropped

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Arensman's 3rd week revival has been short lived. Nearly lost a minute on a short climb. He was about to overtake Almeida in GC but now the gap is 55s again. I think Almeida will finish stronger the next days. On the other hand, i'm sure Arensman will take his Sierra Nevada win over Almeida's 6th spot in GC any day of the week.

Average age of top 8 in GC is 23.6 years old.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Average age of top 8 in GC is 23.6 years old.

Wow, an all-out attack of the youngsters. Add to it Pogacar, Bernal and Vingegaard who aren't old boys either. What's been happening in the last couple of years at GTs is something unseen for decades.

 

[Gargamel35]

He only lost time because of the crash. Today he was the best of the peloton. Saturday was an obvious offday. Even Ayouso was better than Evenepoel. The others were not getting better. It was just Evenepoel Who needed to recover from his crash. He has done that now and wont get dropped

He lost time. Not once but twice. Not twice, but three times including in a stage where Roglič crashed. He was loosing time every time he was atracked in last days. His only luck is his oponent crashed out, others are second or third tier anyway.

 

[red_flanders]

He lost time. Not once but twice. Not twice, but three times including in a stage where Roglič crashed. He was loosing time every time he was atracked in last days. His only luck is his oponent crashed out, others are second or third tier anyway.

He lost a bunch of time the day after he crashed. Much less the subsequent day on which many were predicting he'd ship boatloads. He worked the entire climb in front of Roglič, who sat on his wheel for something like 18k, then grabbed a few seconds at the end. He was obviously strong today, easily shutting down every attack he needed to.

Was Roglič somehow NOT lucky when Evenepoel crashed, but Evenepoel IS lucky that Roglič did?

The last was of course, rhetorical.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Mas and López trying to put Evenepoel under pressure. On the stage 17.

They really saved their bullets wisely!

 

[proffate]

Never pick Yates for a GT and I would never pick Hayter who is a poor man's Belgian Pozzato.

Unlucky with Roglic pick maybe , but to pick a potentially Injured guy on 2 weeks training is no a great choice

Roglic exited the race as the leader in the fantasy point standings, without even counting the 5th place points he would have gotten if not crashing. He was a great choice aside from the crash, and hardly a bust even with the crash (still more bang for the buck than almost all riders).

It seems everyone and their mother picked Hayter (in my mini league at least) so his performance has little impact on the competition.

I agree I would never pick a Yates, way too inconsistent.

 

[Gargamel35]

He lost a bunch of time the day after he crashed. Much less the subsequent day on which many were predicting he'd ship boatloads. He worked the entire climb in front of Roglič, who sat on his wheel for something like 18k, then grabbed a few seconds at the end. He was obviously strong today, easily shutting down every attack he needed to.

Was Roglič somehow NOT lucky when Evenepoel crashed, but Evenepoel IS lucky that Roglič did?

The last was of course, rhetorical.

He. Lost. Time. Don't give us reasons. He was loosing it day after day.

 

[Angelo1985]

I think Mas can hardly sustain an attack while not being pulled, after each attack he slows down so much.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Arensman's 3rd week revival has been short lived. Nearly lost a minute on a short climb. He was about to overtake Almeida in GC but now the gap is 55s again. I think Almeida will finish stronger the next days. On the other hand, i'm sure Arensman will take his Sierra Nevada win over Almeida's 6th spot in GC any day of the week.

Average age of top 8 in GC is 23.6 years old.

its only the first time Arensman is trying for a GC in a GT really. Almeida has a bit more experience. And as you mentioned, Arensman actually won a stage so.

I don't think Arensman is a GC talent in the way Ayuso, Evenepoel, Rodriguez are. And that's ok.

 

[red_flanders]

He. Lost. Time. Don't give us reasons. He was loosing it day after day.

"Don't give us reasons."

Wow. Surely a quote made for this age.

I'm actually stunned anyone had the temerity to say that out loud. Congrats.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

its only the first time Arensman is trying for a GC in a GT really. Almeida has a bit more experience. And as you mentioned, Arensman actually won a stage so.

I don't think Arensman is a GC talent in the way Ayuso, Evenepoel, Rodriguez are. And that's ok.

I wasn't criticising. But i remember an interview of a few days ago that he noticed he was improving and also thought so in the Giro, he somehow assumed the 3rd week was in his favor.
He had a rather catastrophic first 10 days, but he managed to turn it around with a nice spot in GC and a big win.

 

[perico]

Mas' negative reputation is absolutely destroying him, he needs a new PR team. "Mas won't attack, he's boring" Mas attacks and gains time on all GC contenders "Mas should have attacked more and sooner, he's boring" Mas attacks unsuccessfully "Mas' attack was ineffective, he's boring". The guy is already a dead ringer as a rider for Carlos Sastre, he'd probably have to turn into the reincarnation of Don Limpio's brother-in-law to shake his reputation at this point.

But this overshadows the most important thing today: we actually saw Haimar Zubeldia win a race. My mind is blown.

In the TdFs he's reminded me more of Paco Mancebo or pre-2003 Beloki (who was constantly criticized as a wheelsucker before 2003 whene he attacked like a madman and prematurely ended his career as a GC rider).

 

[proffate]

Agreed.
In some cases it’s fair to bemoan the bad luck endured by a rider where they’re taken out of the race by another rider or something completely out of their control. But Roglic has got nobody to blame but himself here, as sad as it is for him and for the spectacle of the race. He was trying to close Remco’s huge time advantage, went too deep in doing so and lost concentration and paid the price - that doesn’t diminish Remco’s (impending) win, if anything it confirms how dominant Remco has been.

However you feel about Lance, he never let anything take him out of the race. The Beloki crash comes to mind.

OTOH, Roglic crashes quite often. Whether it's his "fault" or not on a case by case basis, the pattern is hard to deny. Something about his positioning/attention/etc. could be improved.

 

[YavorD]

He. Lost. Time. Don't give us reasons. He was loosing it day after day.

So if you lose time because you've been leading the group for kilometers that's not a good reason? LoL.

Besides, Primoz took just 15 seconds on Sierra Nevada (not to mention, he was following wheels for 15km..which on 5% is significant). How much would you expect him to gain on the remaining stages, following this pattern?

 

[Gargamel35]

So if you lose time because you've been leading the group for kilometers that's not a good reason? LoL.

Besides, Primoz took just 15 seconds on Sierra Nevada (not to mention, he was following wheels for 15km..which on 5% is significant). How much would you expect him to gain on the remaining stages, following this pattern?

Just 15s, just 50s, yesterday it would be just 30s. He. Lost. Time.

 

[YavorD]

Just 15s, just 50s, yesterday it would be just 30s. He. Lost. Time.

48, 15, 8.
Technically he was losing Less and Less. So following YOUR pattern, he was getting better and Roglic worse.
Unless you suggest Romeco wouldn't be able to finish in a 30 man group, containing GT winners like Omar Goldstein.

 

[JosefK]

On the discussion about whether Remco would have held the red jersey vs. Roglic in week 3, there are points to be made on both sides. Remco looked much, much stronger on the Sierra Nevada stage than the day before. On the other hand, Roglic was taking time back on Remco in each of the last 3 stages, and Roglic's attack on stage 16, the first day of the final week of racing, seemed to indicate that he was feeling stronger in the final week. We'll never know for sure. When the race ended for Roglic, Remco was still ahead by a decent margin. This will be a well-deserved grand tour win for Remco if he has no bad luck in the coming days.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I wasn't criticising. But i remember an interview of a few days ago that he noticed he was improving and also thought so in the Giro, he somehow assumed the 3rd week was in his favor.
He had a rather catastrophic first 10 days, but he managed to turn it around with a nice spot in GC and a big win.

First week contained the basque stages. Arensman is notoriously bad in explosive efforts, so it his normal level honestly.

The catastrophic part was the TT, which would have been his strength without the heat stroke he suffered there

 

[red_flanders]

However you feel about Lance, he never let anything take him out of the race. The Beloki crash comes to mind.

OTOH, Roglic crashes quite often. Whether it's his "fault" or not on a case by case basis, the pattern is hard to deny. Something about his positioning/attention/etc. could be improved.

The crash yesterday was his fault, 100%. The one in the Tour was tough, but everyone else in that group missed the bale. I think you're quite right, his attention clearly slips at times. It's unfortunate, he's a great rider and personality otherwise.

 

[Riek s]

On the discussion about whether Remco would have held the red jersey vs. Roglic in week 3, there are points to be made on both sides. Remco looked much, much stronger on the Sierra Nevada stage than the day before. On the other hand, Roglic was taking time back on Remco in each of the last 3 stages, and Roglic's attack on stage 16, the first day of the final week of racing, seemed to indicate that he was feeling stronger in the final week. We'll never know for sure. When the race ended for Roglic, Remco was still ahead by a decent margin. This will be a well-deserved grand tour win for Remco if he has no bad luck in the coming days.

The statement of roglic getting stronger is dubious at best imho.
He seemed better on stage 14 mostly because Remco was bad. In the end he was equal to Lopez.
On stage 15 he clung on for dear life after Remco took over when he attacked at the bottom. He was clearly the weakest in that group for the whole climb.
Yesterday we will never know.

The reason he said on stage 1 he felt better because he needed to go balls deep before.
Same reason why on sierra nevada he said he felt better at the end and not at the beginning. He needed to go balls deep to not be dropped by remco on that early steep part. He only felt better after a long recuperation while taking advantage of the drag benifit.

Lopez was his equal on stage 14
Mas/Lopez were stronger on stage 15

I think Roglic statements about feeling better has more to do with him being able to attack/ride his own tempo compared to suffering in the wheel of others. And thus a close ty with the speed remco put onto him. (before and after stage 14)

 

[Boes]

I was talking about Vuelta 2022, so all your writing at the start is false.

Remco lost time in w2 and would keep loosing time, it was clear.

rEmcO wOuLd LoSE tImE i'm sURe oF iT

you dutch Sourgrapes always make me smile.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

rEmcO wOuLd LoSE tImE i'm sURe oF iT

you dutch Sourgrapes always make me smile.

Belgians. They are Belgians.

The Dutch are a different kettle of fish alltogether.