Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 9: Villaviciosa - Les Praeres, 171.4k

[Volderke]

Field is hard to judge when literally nobody is doing 2 consistent GTs in a single year this year. I guess it's not too much of a stretch to say Mas is probably at a similar level to last year. What is clear is that Roglic isn't at his normal level and that Pogacar and Vingegaard aren't there. To say the field is strong because some big names are present but finishing 60th 8 minutes down is just nuts.

What this Evenepoel would do in the or Giro or Tour? Barring collapses on longer climbs I'd lean to 3rd at the Tour and in the mix for the Giro win.

For those who doubt the level in this Vuelta: Remco did 12s better on the last 15-minute climb than a top-level (Vuelta-winning) Simon Yates in 2018. According to Strava, it was even 20 seconds.

So Remco 2022 would have finished 20 seconds before Yates 2018 on this stage. That same Yates that won that Vuelta, and was that toying around with Froome and Dumoulin in the Giro 2018 almost every day the road went up in the first 2.5 weeks).
Would anyone have said the level of the competition is weak if Yates 2018 finished at 20 seconds today...?

Face it: if Vingegaard was still working in the fish industry, Pogacar would have won his 3rd Tour and people would have said he's dominant and the best thing ever in cycling.
But if there is another guy who suddenly decides to switch from the factory (or from ski jumping or football or Zwift ) to full-time racing and beats Vingegaard in the Tour, would we conclude that Vingegaard is a weak competitor and Pogacar even weaker (as in: a young boy that still has to learn a lot)?

Just to show that:

1. the relative level of competition is what it is: you battle against the riders who show up to race. Always been like this and Remco can't help that some of the 'big guns' are underperforming or not showing up... They all have good reasons but that doesn't make a rider's win less glamorous.
2. the absolute level of Remco is higher than that of some of the past winners and (only his team knows) he is probably doing stellar W/kg that are at Tour level. Would this be enough to beat (or just follow) Vingegaard in this year's Tour or Pogacar in last year's Tour? Who knows, we can only guess. But irregardless of the competition, Remco's performances in this Vuelta are GT-winner-worthy: he performs and shouldn't apologize for the competition, if he wins this.

 

[Extinction]

The Great Louis Meintjes was probably 7th fastest of all on the last climb today despite being in the break for most of the stage

I mean, sure it's a 15 minute climb and only so much time can be gained or lost and Meintjes and Intermarche are on a different level this year, but it's still a pointer that the overall quality is rather iffy.

Have you ever heard of adrenaline?

 

[roundabout]

Have you ever heard of adrenaline?

Is that a general comment or Meintjes-specific one?

 

[search]

Alpecin now 1-2-3 in the mountain classification

 

[Extinction]

Is that a general comment or Meintjes-specific one?

Both, because in such cases, the thought of being hanged in a fortnight hastens the memory excedingly (or the legs).

 

[roundabout]

Both, because in such cases, the thought of being hanged in a fortnight hastens the memory excedingly (or the legs).

Or maybe as Potter Stewart once wrote, I know it when I see it.

And I have seen plenty of cycling (maybe not much as you, but plenty enough).

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Louis Meintjes for winning his first stage.

Today's stage was rather controlled hence till the final climb not all that dramatic to watch. But the end delivered. Evenepoel was clearly the strongest. Then Mas and some youngsters being involved. Roglič still managing to bounce back and not to lose more time. Where in my opinion competition made a tactical mistake is they should have burned a match or two at the first category climb in the middle of the stage. Mainly to target Alaphilippe. The outcome would likely still be similar but less time would likely be lost on the final climb. But OK. We will get to see more of that after the ITT.

 

[Extinction]

Or maybe as Potter Stewart once wrote, I know it when I see it.

And I have seen plenty of cycling (maybe not much as you, but plenty enough).

He simply had a great day. Top performance is not limited to the Tour, even if averages tend towards that. The point is simply on the day he found his mojo, and in the lottery of peaking hit a strike. On a day like this in the Tour he might also have prevailed.

 

[Wvv]

I know I am alone in this but I loved Hesjdahl’s win.

You're not alone.

 

[movingtarget]

Suppose the argument is most of them aren't in good condition. Roglic has had his issues, Carapaz has had one race since the Giro this year, Hindley hasnt raced much either, Landa has been injured, Nibali is ancient and Tao was just lucky.

Isn't that always the way then you add crashes, mechanicals etc.........the people that raced the Giro normally wouldn't race much between the Vuelta anyway but Roglic has had issues of course and maybe Carapaz is also thinking of the Worlds. Nibali making up the numbers now although his ride in the Giro was much better than I expected.

 

[Savant12]

Too easy for Remco. All the other GC contenders are way off form or not good enough. Or Remco is putting in too much, too early a la Simon "That Giro" Yates.

 

[Escarabajo]

Too easy for Remco. All the other GC contenders are way off form or not good enough. Or Remco is putting in too much, too early a la Simon "That Giro" Yates.

I think him, and his coaches, know that this form cannot last the whole Vuelta. And that is very understandable. That's why he is trying to put a lot of time into everyone. And it could be enough, just like Froome used to do or even Bernal at the Giro.

 

[The Hegelian]

You're not alone.

I liked it too!

 

[tobydawq]

Alpecin now 1-2-3 in the mountain classification

I did think they looked like the strongest mountain team in the race.

 

[spalco]

I think him, and his coaches, know that this form cannot last the whole Vuelta. And that is very understandable. That's why he is trying to put a lot of time into everyone. And it could be enough, just like Froome used to do or even Bernal at the Giro.

It could be true, but it's not necessarily a logical conclusion imo. An axiom in stage racing is "take time when you can".
If the situation was the opposite - Remco's coming into the race undercooked - why wouldn't he have also done the exact same things if the competition let him?

 

[Extinction]

I think him, and his coaches, know that this form cannot last the whole Vuelta. And that is very understandable. That's why he is trying to put a lot of time into everyone. And it could be enough, just like Froome used to do or even Bernal at the Giro.

Well, we have to wait and see. On stage four, which Roglic won, he came in at the back of the best, so his effort was controlled, relatively speaking mind you. Then on stages 6, 8 and 9 he surged ahead without wild accellerations, which are more taxing than the steady drive mode he has applied. In other words, he is pacing himself rather well, which may work in favor of keeping his form high into week 3 without a significant drop in level.


If his coaches were smart, they would have planned for him to keep reserves for the third week and he has been riding as if that were just the case. Of course, the proof is only in the pudding and thus only time will tell. So far, however, his self-management should be applauded, as has been displaying the maturity and composure of a seasoned veteran in GTs. It demonstrates another important factor: confidence, enhanced by results.

 

[Riek s]

From Watt Police:

Remco	1991 VAM	6,83W/kg
Ayuso	1919 VAM	6,56W/kg
Mas/Rodriguez	1899 VAM	6,49W/kg
Roglic	1895 VAM	6,48W/kg
Meintjes	1816VAM	6,2W/kg

Meintjes still rode very well given he was in the break. Those steep things are really suiting him.

Ayuso fanastic, seems like Pogacar 2.0 if this keeps up for the remainder of the Vuelta. (Also rodriguez.. 3 guys who can still ride tour l'avenir at the top here.

 

[tobydawq]

From Watt Police:

Remco	1991 VAM	6,83W/kg
Ayuso	1919 VAM	6,56W/kg
Mas/Rodriguez	1899 VAM	6,49W/kg
Roglic	1895 VAM	6,48W/kg
Meintjes	1816VAM	6,2W/kg

Meintjes still rode very well given he was in the break. Those steep things are really suiting him.

Ayuso fanastic, seems like Pogacar 2.0 if this keeps up for the remainder of the Vuelta. (Also rodriguez.. 3 guys who can still ride tour l'avenir at the top here.

Spanish cycling is suddenly looking alright.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

From Watt Police:

Remco	1991 VAM	6,83W/kg
Ayuso	1919 VAM	6,56W/kg
Mas/Rodriguez	1899 VAM	6,49W/kg
Roglic	1895 VAM	6,48W/kg
Meintjes	1816VAM	6,2W/kg

Meintjes still rode very well given he was in the break. Those steep things are really suiting him.

Ayuso fanastic, seems like Pogacar 2.0 if this keeps up for the remainder of the Vuelta. (Also rodriguez.. 3 guys who can still ride tour l'avenir at the top here.

One thing that i noticed with Ayuso, is that on one of the two longer MTF, he faded rather quickly towards the end, going from around 10s behind Evenepoel and Mas, to 40s behind in the last 3k.
In the other of the two longest MTF, he lost a chunk of time to even Yates and Rodriguez.

Not sure if this is going to become a pattern. Could simply be his age, or maybe he's more of a murito type of climber and not a HC type climber.

 

[Kwibus]

Remco is only going to get better, if anything Roglic and Mas will fade further.

I liked you more when you posted nice photos and was enthusiastic about races instead of this constant poor trolling

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Spanish cycling is suddenly looking alright.

Vuelta effect.

 

[Lequack]

I liked you more when you posted nice photos and was enthusiastic about races instead of this constant poor trolling

I am hardly trolling though. Remco is young so it's only logical he recovers better, so does Pogacar and Vingegaard. Statistically it's more probably that others will fade sooner. This is of course barring some other mishaps.

 

[Kwibus]

Clearly according to whom? It may be that Hindley isn't as well suited to the Vuelta's steep goat tracks as he is to the long Giro climbs. On paper, the Giro is easily a tougher race, but just because you're seeing the Spanish guys riding high doesn't mean the field quality is worse. Landa is clearly the one outlier of a guy who is going worse, but at this point in his career I don't think even in top form he'd be any higher than Simon Yates currently, whereas he finished on the podium in May. Remco is just riding that well at the moment.

I've been in endless discussions in the past about with this form he would've also won the TdF or whatever GT. The Contador in this form would've easily won the TdF last year etc.

Really pointless discussions. There are so many variables. All we do know is that the quality of the field is pretty much always highest at the TdF. I've disliked the TdF for years in the past and was a Giro lover and liked the Vuelta over the TdF as well, but it can't be denied the level of play at the TdF is always the highest.
Ask any rider and they will always confirm this.

Purely comparing the watts over a 30 minute climb between the Vuelta and the TdF for example is not correct. The stress levels during the TdF are constantly higher. The speeds in the TdF are constantly higher.

I guess part of the fun of a forum is discussing ' what if's ' ofcourse, but the bold claims of people being sure about stuff is always ridiculous.

Evenepoel is doing great so far and there is little to suspect he will fade, but it's still 2 weeks so let's see what happens. If he keeps this up for 3 weeks it will only give us more to look out for in the TdF next year!

p.s. I reply to you (perico), but it's more a general reply to all the comparing comments in here.

 

[Kwibus]

I am hardly trolling though. Remco is young so it's only logical he recovers better, so does Pogacar and Vingegaard. Statistically it's more probably that others will fade sooner. This is of course barring some other mishaps.

It's not true though. Younger riders usually have a harder time being consistent in their first years certainly compared to hardenen veterans.
Also everyone is different and some are at their peak at 21/22 and some reach their peak at 30.

Remco seems fine, but he still has to proof he can do this for 3 weeks. There is currently no reason to doubt this, because unlike previous GT's his preparation has been really good so his base should be fine.
Mas and Roglic could certainly fade as they allready planned their peak for July. It has nothing to do with age though.

 

[Lequack]

I am hoping though that Roglic and Mas do get better, it will be better for us viewers that they give us hope until the third week. Or at least that they try to do a Froome on Finestre kind of move.