Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 1: Barcelona - Barcelona (14.8k / TTT)

[Gigs_98]

Only watched the highlights but I cannot see how you can come away from this thinking anything other than this was a massive fail by the organizers. Even if you think this was perfectly save (which I don't) the visibility so obviously made this an unfair competition that never should have been allowed.

And regarding Remco, I cannot believe him complaining about the obvious safety issue despite gaining time on his most dangerous opponents can be seen as anything but a positive character trait. But I suppose certain people want to make sure controversial characters remain controversial, no matter what.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Obvious safety issue? Only one person here noticed the TTT would be finishing in the twilight.

 

[hrotha]

Obvious safety issue? Only one person here noticed the TTT would be finishing in the twilight.

Checking this kind of thing is the job of only zero people here

 

[groogster]

Obvious safety issue? Only one person here noticed the TTT would be finishing in the twilight.

The point is that it's simply unfair to have some teams doing their time trial with direct sunlight and others doing it in almost pitch black conditions! I think it's a no brainer!!
Every team should have the possibility to do their time trial with the same light conditions! That would be easily acomplished by starting the time trial one hour earlier!
Even with sunny day conditions (was not the case) the sunset in Barcelona for the 26th of August was expected around 20:35 (CEST), with the departure of the the last team (QS) scheduled for 20:19 (CEST) was already possible that the last KM was going to be made without any direct sunlight.
This fact was aggravated by the weather conditions. The forecast for this day was already know to be heavy clouds with rain and thunderstorms, so was from the public knowledge that the direct light conditions would be much worse sooner than with a sunny forecast.
Once again it was a no brainer that the organizers should have started one hour earlier so they can give every single team the same conditions.
I'm ok if the organizers decide to make a TT stage by night, just make sure that everyone will race it by night.

 

[movingtarget]

TTT's were always problematic for good riders on weaker teams. Now they seem antiquated in modern stage racing like a novelty event. Like to see them retired permananently. The prologue and ITT are much more relevant and apt for finding the best rider over three weeks. As for the race conditions, you take what you get and with the length of time it takes to run such events the weather can always be variable but the lighting issue was obviously botched planning and one that will probably never be repeated you would hope.

 

[Extinction]

Bad conditions are part of the game. Tomorrow is another day.

You do get that riding in the daylight is an advantage over riding in the darkness, don't you? And such a stage should be organized so that all teams can see the course equally? Weather conditions, rain and wind direction, are out of the organizers control, but not when to start a TTT. The choice to start the race at 6:30 pm, when it's a fact darkness sets in after 8 pm and thus the last teams will be riding in the dark is simply an unacceptable program. The UCI steps in to regulate even inane issues, but doesn't tell the Vuelta organization, look, you have to start the TTT an hour earlier so everybody races in the daylight? It would have been one thing to do a night TTT, with extra lighting to illuminate the course, in which all teams have the same visibility; entirely another to send some teams off in the light, others into the darkness. Here Spain's eating dinner after 10 pm culture and the Barcelona movida got to the Vuelta organizers' heads. Amateurish stupidity.

 

[Wvv]

We interviewed Lorenzo Milesi in our podcast a month ago and since then he's become World Champion and first red jersey at the Vuelta. So happy for him 😍

Can you interview me too please. I need some good news and succes in my life right now. Thanks.

 

[Extinction]

Obvious safety issue? Only one person here noticed the TTT would be finishing in the twilight.

You must be trolling. There is nothing to debate here, it's simply a question of lightness versus darkness. And all teams should have the same lighting conditions. It's simply unacceptable that you have some teams racing in daylight, others in darkness. Weather conditions are out of everybody's control, when to start a race program no. This was simply the complete failure of the Vuelta organization to recognize a fundamental problem or, worse, underdtood the dynamics, but refused to make a correction.

 

[CyclistAbi]

& lets not forget your local amateur cycling will be holding events in the dark and in far worse conditions

Nah.

P.S. I feel that majority of people watching has seen it for what it is. Unfair conditions and as such one can't really enjoy it. That is perceiving it as being a serious competition. Maybe one could sell it as a bad Netflix show and with some popcorn it might be OK.

 

[Izzyeviel]

You do get that riding in the daylight is an advantage over riding in the darkness, don't you? And such a stage should be organized so that all teams can see the course equally? Weather conditions, rain and wind direction, are out of the organizers control, but not when to start a TTT. The choice to start the race at 6:30 pm, when it's a fact darkness sets in after 8 pm and thus the last teams will be riding in the dark is simply an unexeptable program. The UCI steps in to regulate even inane issues, but doesn't tell the Vuelta organization, look, you have to start the TTT an hour earlier so everybody races in the daylight? It would have been one thing to do a night TTT, with extra lighting to illuminate the course, in which all teams have the same visibility; entirely another to send some teams off in the light, others into the darkness. Here Spain's eating dinner after 10 pm culture and the Barcelona movida got to the Vuelta organizers' heads. Amateurish stupidity.

a) The weather made it darker than it otherwise would've been b) streetlights exist (has no-one here been out at night?) c) The teams, riders, fans, etc have known for months that they'd be finishing in the dark. No-one cared. Do you know why? because its not actually a problem!

They're supposed to be the best riders in the world. We're in terrible trouble if they can't handle riding in the twilight on a course they've spent all day reconning and all season planning for.

 

[Extinction]

& lets not forget your local amateur cycling will be holding events in the dark and in far worse conditions, & the fact when we have gone racing in the 'dark' no-one complained. https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/vuelta-a-españa-stage-1-august-28-ttt-sevilla-16-5km.9822/

There is nothing new or unique about this TTT.

You conveniently neglect to mention that holding a night time event, in which everybody rides after sunset and thus has equal lighting conditions, is not what we saw in this TTT, which is simply an amateurish travesty in programing, unbefitting of a World Tour event.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Again, the teams, riders, fans etc all had a very, very long time to realise this. Either they're all stupid idiots for not noticing & doing something about or its not actually much of a problem. Had the weather been good no-one would've noticed.

 

[Extinction]

a) The weather made it darker than it otherwise would've been b) streetlights exist (has no-one here been out at night?) c) The teams, riders, fans, etc have known for months that they'd be finishing in the dark. No-one cared. Do you know why? because its not actually a problem!

They're supposed to be the best riders in the world. We're in terrible trouble if they can't handle riding in the twilight on a course they've spent all day reconning and all season planning for.

I'll concede that the teams could have protested before the grand start, although with all the prep involved it was probably simply an oversight on their part (after all, it's not their job to organize the event); not that the organizers correctly planned the program. They simply made an egregious mistake, which frankly coming from a race as pretigious as the Vuelta is simply amateurish and unacceptable.

That they are the best bike handlers in the world or even the darkness issue is irrelevant; what matters is that each team should have had the same lighting conditions out on the course; not some race in the daylight, others after sunset. Your arguments are thus bogus.

 

[Nick2413]

I think the issue for a lot of people with Remco complaining is that nobody else did so it comes off as bad optics. He was right to complain and someone needs to do it but it’s not a surprise.

The rain can’t be controlled but they never should’ve started this late and should’ve been able to bump it by an hour after seeing the weather. I did a double take when I saw the start time.

 

[Extinction]

I think the issue for a lot of people with Remco complaining is that nobody else did so it comes off as bad optics. He was right to complain and someone needs to do it but it’s not a surprise.

The rain can’t be controlled but they never should’ve started this late and should’ve been able to bump it by an hour after seeing the weather. I did a double take when I saw the start time.

Me too.

 

[Extinction]

Again, the teams, riders, fans etc all had a very, very long time to realise this. Either they're all stupid idiots for not noticing & doing something about or its not actually much of a problem. Had the weather been good no-one would've noticed.

What's stupid is holding those responsible for that which they aren't accountable, instead of the organization that is. An organization, moreover, that is all the more blameworthy for not taking into account the possible weather conditions, which makes you final point moot. And even when the forecast called for rain into the evening, it still didn't change the starting hour. Totally amateurish. Your argument thus makes no logical sense.

 

[Pantani_lives]

In a stage like this the only thing that matters is avoiding crashes.

TV images of the Sagrada Familia at dusk are nice, but that isn't the place and time to organize a TTT.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

"If you thought it was a problem, you should have complained" reeks of intellectual laziness. Teams have to rely on organizers to a large extent. The organizers have the informational advantage here.
As for "if it hadn't rained, nobody would have complained", well, it did rain, didn't it? It's almost as though it should be the job of the organizers to consider (gasp) weather scenarios when making decisions. You plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[houtdffan]

This was the fault of the ASO

Prudhomme and Guillen need to be shown the door over this

But please do not promote Govenou

 

[gregrowlerson]

View: https://youtu.be/FJ1bzKISLBw?si=_f_wdDOKPlPfxt0A

 

[Oldermanish]

a) The weather made it darker than it otherwise would've been b) streetlights exist (has no-one here been out at night?) c) The teams, riders, fans, etc have known for months that they'd be finishing in the dark. No-one cared. Do you know why? because its not actually a problem!

They're supposed to be the best riders in the world. We're in terrible trouble if they can't handle riding in the twilight on a course they've spent all day reconning and all season planning for.

Can't handle the twilight? Having raced crits in twilight with inadequate perimeter lighting IMO they are pointlessly dangerous and usually amateurs are the only ones willing to do it. Add that it is a TTT with riders in awkward racing posture, close proximity and pools of water reflecting weirdly you have crossed into Twilight Zone sensibility. If any of the teams and principal players knew they'd be risking their careers in these conditions they would have likely declined and forced the organizers to do the rational earlier start.
Questioning the skills, preparedness or courage of athletes few of us could sit on for 30 seconds on dry pavement is an immediate disqualifier. This was just not smart.

 

[Koronin]

I've only seen pictures from this. What the heck where they thinking? I agree with the others that all teams should have the same lighting conditions. I think even starting this a half hour earlier would have accomplished that.

 

[Sciatic]

You do get that riding in the daylight is an advantage over riding in the darkness, don't you? And such a stage should be organized so that all teams can see the course equally? Weather conditions, rain and wind direction, are out of the organizers control, but not when to start a TTT. The choice to start the race at 6:30 pm, when it's a fact darkness sets in after 8 pm and thus the last teams will be riding in the dark is simply an unacceptable program. The UCI steps in to regulate even inane issues, but doesn't tell the Vuelta organization, look, you have to start the TTT an hour earlier so everybody races in the daylight? It would have been one thing to do a night TTT, with extra lighting to illuminate the course, in which all teams have the same visibility; entirely another to send some teams off in the light, others into the darkness. Here Spain's eating dinner after 10 pm culture and the Barcelona movida got to the Vuelta organizers' heads. Amateurish stupidity.

I heard they did at least make sure every rider’s sock length was within regulation. Priorities.

 

[Volderke]

& lets not forget your local amateur cycling will be holding events in the dark and in far worse conditions, & the fact when we have gone racing in the 'dark' no-one complained. https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/vuelta-a-españa-stage-1-august-28-ttt-sevilla-16-5km.9822/

There is nothing new or unique about this TTT.

Re-read my comment. It wasn’t raining in Sevilla. Rain in the dark is much worse.

 

[Volderke]

Again, the teams, riders, fans etc all had a very, very long time to realise this. Either they're all stupid idiots for not noticing & doing something about or its not actually much of a problem. Had the weather been good no-one would've noticed.

Had the weather been good, visibility would have been much better as well. But hey, it wasn’t!
Don you realize you’re stating the obvious, and are actually saying that it was a problem?

And the main issue is still not solved: teams riding in light, other teams riding in the dark.

DSM:

SQS: