Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 1: Barcelona - Barcelona (14.8k / TTT)

[Valv.Piti]

I can imagine some concessions as a way to make up for the fail that was the yesterdays TTT

Make up calls and decisions are just way worse.

 

[Red Rick]

I can imagine some concessions as a way to make up for the fail that was the yesterdays TTT

They're really trying their best to make me stop caring about rider safety if that's the reason

 

[Rackham]

Take the times at 10k to go or something like that if they want to go down that route

That would be obscene. I don't like what I'm reading this morning re neutralizing the GC times on today's stage.

It's a punchy finish. I mean no sh*t G Thomas might want it neutralized. No offense to Thomas I think he's a top bloke but come on now, such decisions go from "we care for safety" real fast into "some of us have a vested interest in seeing these times frozen today because the route doesn't suit us anyway".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695734208595980756

View: https://twitter.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1695734208595980756

 

[samhocking]

If CPA wants today stage to be neutral they should just diaf tbh.

Nothing wrong with today. Just rain.

Still race the stage win, just neutralise GC for the really dodgy descent today as people will be out of GC for nothing to do with skill, purely luck otherwise.

 

[samhocking]

That would be obscene. I don't like what I'm reading this morning re neutralizing the GC times on today's stage.

It's a punchy finish. I mean no sh*t G Thomas might want it neutralized. No offense to Thomas I think he's a top bloke but come on now, such decisions go from "we care for safety" real fast into "some of us have a vested interest in seeing these times frozen today because the route doesn't suit us anyway".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695734208595980756

View: https://twitter.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1695734208595980756

The descent today is one of the worst even in the dry. To race GC down it is bordering on simply insanity for a stage race.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Do we know if any team complained before the stage about the starting times?

Because everyone knew the starting times, and they also knew the weather could well be ***.

Good point.

Similarly, what have been the start times of other Stage One short team time trials in the Vuelta in previous years, which have not been infrequent? Not much, if any, earlier, I suspect. Usually done in balmy summer evening conditions.

Statistically, there was a very good chance of having the same again, and we would all have been talking about how cool Barcelona looked and adding it to our lists of places to go. That team presentation event started at 8pm local time, I believe, and I don't think any of us would have had qualms about riding in those conditions. (And if you would have, you didn't say so)

Just as statistically there is a good chance, but no guarantee, of bright clear weather as they meander through the countryside. If it is wet and stormy, and helicopters can't take off, and branches have fallen on the roads, that is not the organisers' fault. Cycling is a sport of contingencies.

 

[roundabout]

The descent today is one of the worst even in the dry. To race GC down it is bordering on simply insanity for a stage race.

Really?

That's the *supposedly* dangerous bit that needs to be cancelled

View: https://youtu.be/Yd_r7vbKrSk?t=262

 

[Rackham]

The descent today is one of the worst even in the dry. To race GC down it is bordering on simply insanity for a stage race.

No it's not. The descent is the exact same one used in the final circuit of the Tour of Catalunya in March. It's easy-peasy ultra wide & not technical.

 

[samhocking]

Really?

That's the *supposedly* dangerous bit that needs to be cancelled

View: https://youtu.be/Yd_r7vbKrSk?t=262

It's not the descent itself, it's the fact you will need to race down it for GC position into the circuit / line and if it's wet, someone's GC race will be over. Nobody wants to see GC riders crashing out simply due to luck when it's easily prevented,

 

[roundabout]

It's not the descent itself, it's the fact you will need to race down it for GC position into the circuit and if it's wet, someone's GC race will be over. Nobody wants to see GC riders crashing out simply due to luck when it's easily prevented,

That's the start of a slippery slope towards removing downhill finishes altogether (wet or dry).

Nope.

 

[samhocking]

That's the start of a slippery slope towards removing downhill finishes altogether (wet or dry).

Nope.

Things is you and I have zero invested interest, the teams, sponsors, riders, families sacrifice months of normal life so we don't have to invest anything other than a GCN subscription cost. The riders deserve better, Remco is right, this isn't a circus and if it was, there would be no animals today anyway!

 

[roundabout]

Things is you and I have zero invested interest, the teams, sponsors, riders, families sacrifice months of normal life so we don't have to invest anything other than a GCN subscription cost. The riders deserve better, Remco is right, this isn't a circus and if it was, there would be no animals today anyway!

I imagine that Jay Vine is paid less than his physical ability warrants so there is a premium for the ability to navigate obstacles of an outdoor sport.

 

[samhocking]

I imagine that Jay Vine is paid less than his physical ability warrants so there is a premium for the ability to navigate obstacles of an outdoor sport.

I'd say the majority of crashes are actually caused by uncontrollable events. Sure, there is a very small part of GC racing that involves bike handling and it should be kept that way, but not turn situations that cause injury into some 'premium' avoidance skill, there's nothing skillfull about not crashing into a rider crashing around you, it's just luck and if we can minimise it, it should be done so all GC riders reach the finish line and race with legs and effort in the mountains.

 

[hrotha]

What's funny about the line of reasoning that goes "the teams should have known about this and they didn't complain, they're stupid" is that, even if we accept the premise... so what? Their being stupid wouldn't exonerate the organizers, who should absolutely know better.

Also a bit flabbergasted by the talk about Spanish culture and doing things late to be honest. Not because it's necessarily untrue, but because I don't see the relevance to this cluster****. It's not in our culture to race in the dark. This was Guillén and co. trying to think outside the box and being too clever for their own good, not Guillén and co. getting carried away by their cultural baggage.

 

[roundabout]

I'd say the majority of crashes are actually caused by uncontrollable events. Sure, there is a very small part of GC racing that involves bike handling and it should be kept that way, but not turn situations that cause injury into some 'premium' avoidance skill, there's nothing skillfull about not crashing into a rider crashing around you, it's just luck and if we can minimise it, it should be done so all riders reach the finish line and race with legs and effort.

We are just going around in circles now (edit: especially with you subtly moving the goalposts with every post as per usual) as there are too many 'uncontrollable' events and trying to minimise those will just turn it to a different sport.

 

[samhocking]

We are just going around in circles now (edit: especially with you subtly moving the goalposts with every post as per usual) as there are too many 'uncontrollable' events and trying to minimise those will just turn it to a different sport.

What possible benefit to the sport. sponsors, families, race organisers, TV etc is a rider going home and not fighting GC out in the mountains exactly? Do fans say in Paris, that was a great fight to stay upright, Roglic crashed less than Remco, he deserves the win - bullsh1t willthey lol!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Would the complaining riders complain, if their team had gone off earlier in the drier and lighter time, and gained a minute or more on their rivals? Can you imagine the discussion if the only teams this weather affected were the likes of Cofidis, DSM, Intermarche and Lotto? I bet no-one would be too bothered, as it didn't affect their favourite or the race favourites.

 

[rallybanana]

I'm sure it has been considered. It wasn't too long ago that an opening stage of the Vuelta literally started on a beach.
They're moving further inland, so that's a nice start.
Maybe next they'll go fully indoors.

Racing inland is too risky. Next year they move back to the sea

 

[samhocking]

Would the complaining riders complain, if their team had gone off earlier in the drier and lighter time, and gained a minute or more on their rivals? Can you imagine the discussion if the only teams this weather affected were the likes of Cofidis, DSM, Intermarche and Lotto? I bet no-one would be too bothered, as it didn't affect their favourite or the race favourites.

No GC team was trying to gain time or even bothered about losing time, the anger is at the safety issue when street lightds were turned off and the last few teams didn't have equal visibility. Nobody complains at changing weather conditions, but racing in the dark without street lights on was a big organisation error.

 

[Izzyeviel]

What's funny about the line of reasoning that goes "the teams should have known about this and they didn't complain, they're stupid" is that, even if we accept the premise... so what? Their being stupid wouldn't exonerate the organizers, who should absolutely know better.

Also a bit flabbergasted by the talk about Spanish culture and doing things late to be honest. Not because it's necessarily untrue, but because I don't see the relevance to this cluster****. It's not in our culture to race in the dark. This was Guillén and co. trying to think outside the box and being too clever for their own good, not Guillén and co. getting carried away by their cultural baggage.

Not really. Its calling out the 'armchair hindsighters'. You can choose to believe everyones an idiot, or you can accept we just got caught out by the weather.

 

[Netserk]

That would be obscene. I don't like what I'm reading this morning re neutralizing the GC times on today's stage.

Agreed. The first decision (times at 3.6 km to go with bonus seconds still in place) was sensible, the new one is more political. Why not neutralise the GC yesterday after the stage then?

 

[Bonimenier]

Agreed. The first decision (times at 3.6 km to go with bonus seconds still in place) was sensible, the new one is more political. Why not neutralise the GC yesterday after the stage then?

Surely you can figure that out yourself.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

They're really trying their best to make me stop caring about rider safety if that's the reason

"I supported the riders before but now they've gone too far"
No you didn't. All you do is belittle riders and their concerns. You'd think cycling, a sport where recreational riders and commuters face similar risks to pros would engender a higher degree of sympathy than in other sports, but clearly expectations need to be set a lot lower for some people.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Racing inland is too risky. Next year they move back to the sea

I think I need to replace my bike after just looking at this picture.

 

[Red Rick]

"I supported the riders before but now they've gone too far"
No you didn't. All you do is belittle riders and their concerns. You'd think cycling, a sport where recreational riders and commuters face similar risks to pros would engender a higher degree of sympathy than in other sports, but clearly expectations need to be set a lot lower for some people.

You're damn right I belittle safety concerns when at every turn riders do very little to safe and only scream at organisers after the fact, while only using safety as a crutch to race less and be safe from criticms.