Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 16: Liencres Playa - Bejes, 120.1k

[ice&fire]

I had sort of suspected that the tactic of Jumbo is that whoever is 3rd has licence to go for the stage/time gap (increase the gap over 4th), and the other 2 are to stick around Mas/Ayuso/anyone else considered relevant.

So tomorrow is Roglic's to attack.

We've had two attempts at 1-2 attacks started by Vingegaard, then he goes nuclear and the counterattack never happens.
Tomorrow Roglic attacks first, he can't gap Ayuso and Mas, Vingegaard counterattacks and goes nuclear again.
We get the same result no matter what.

 

[Gargamel35]

Competition is so weak they can only mark the third place on podium so they will follow Roglič into the sunset but they will let go Jonas or Kuss no problem. Which means Jonas will attack again and Kuss will maybe have a chance defend against Jonas. Roglič will ride with loosers and get attacked left and right.

 

[topt]

I can see both sides.

Ultimately, I think that even though I don't much like Vingegaard, when he proves to be the strongest rider in a Grand Tour, I think it's fair he takes it if he can. Just as I'm typing this, Sepp Kuss says the exact same thing on my TV.

is he ?

 

[saunaking]

In reality, this has been quite a boring race...I am not super invested in who wins, I just see Jonas' actons as those of an a$$hole who demands team loyalty from everyone else, but gives out very little if any. Like I've said, he is a hard figure to cheer for regardless, and he hasn't done anything to improve that in my eyes, so I can offer the Pog fans this: You will enjoy my posts much more next July, and anytime he races against Skeletor.

Pog fans: Mea culpa, you were right all along, about everything.

Jonas learned everything he needs to know from Wout at last year's Tour

 

[Blanco]

Team Soler will only ride for Pogacar. I think he has only ever done domestique duties for him and Valverde.

The guy has class, he only rides for the legends.

 

[Oldermanish]

I find all of this sort of funny, it's all based on Kuss being an emotional weakling.. What if in the bus it was always the plan for Jonas or Roglic to ultimately win and allow Sepp as many rock star days as he can hang with.. No matter what happens overall, Sepp Kuss is shining like a diamond.. backers like Cervelo and Jumbo Visma have press and promotion materials for years and as if it couldn't get any better, solo across the line victories in UK and Spain. People are saying it's tough to cheer for Jonas because he is some mono minded TDF specialist.. Cyclings wet blanket.. the guy is absolutely drilling it, and talk about balance on accident or intentional, rolled home for the win, youngster still in red, team looks unified and laser focused on victory.. And if Kuss pulls it off, kudos..but if he doesn't he still won.

Very excellent take. It's obvious Kuss is probably stronger willed than most of his teammates because he can control arrogance and focus on the job. He and all of the other guys are Pros and making the sponsors happy is the quickest way to a bigger budget. Well done across the board but Kuss lives in Andorra. He could become one of Spain's favorite riders if not already.

 

[Oldermanish]

He wasn't attacking his teammate though. He was attacking to try and win the stage for his friend, and he didn't ride full gas in the final metres. He didn't know what was actually happening behind him, and I doubt he was expecting to be within 30 seconds of Kuss after the stage.

The team is in a great situation now, where in case Kuss cracks, they most likely still get the win. The only one who's really suffered from this is Roglič. And in case he wouldn't have been able/allowed to gain time on Kuss, I doubt he cares much about whether he finishes second or third in the end.

I absolutely think Kuss cares. He shows that in his dedication to the team effort the rest of the time. He also is likely very realistic on his form: he's the one that consistently rides to his limit and certainly observed the breaking point of every good GC guy in the last 4 years. He'll know when it isn't working.

 

[Al-Andaluzz]

The problem is that Roglic and Kuss just have to sit there and accept it. They're the ones who lost today.

They could just have reacted to some of the riders atacking after Jonas went. Why didn't they?

 

[tobydawq]

They could just have reacted to some of the riders atacking after Jonas went. Why didn't they?

Good question. Looking at Ayuso and Mas only probably (which was not smart).

 

[Oldermanish]

They could just have reacted to some of the riders atacking after Jonas went. Why didn't they?

The assignment is watch the immediate and longterm GC threats. They all sat still until the gap was serious and, when they accelerated Kuss began to gap. Primoz sat on to not encourage them which was pretty much the plan A)get Vingo more time B)not lose Kuss too much time.

 

[hayneplane]

An assassin move by Vingegaard to be the initiator of the first attack from the GC group. Following a top 10 move then going over the top would have been fine but this felt like it lacked class.

Kuss should have jumped on the attack but that is not in his nature.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen for winning the stage.

Was a nice short and explosive stage that opened up the GC battle at the start of week three. We have a race!

 

[Lequack]

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, Sepp should snap out of it ASAP. They are now all racing against each other. Regardless of all the talk, on how they are all just holding hands in perfect harmony. Like ebony and ivory. Snap out of it.

 

[HelloDolly]

Just caught up with todays stage and all I can say is Vingegaard rode all the way to the line and he is a bo**ocks
And you can see Roglic was holding up at one stage for Kuss

Vingegaard does not need this win
nor do Jumbo, as many are saying here, need to worry about Kuss ...if he cracks then the other 2 have the race

but no Vingegaard could not let him have it ..could he ...Vinge doesnt need this

I hope Kuss goes awol at the Tour next year

That was a true sh** move by the Tour de France champion

 

[dennisdy]

Yeah, Sepp should snap out of it ASAP. They are now all racing against each other. Regardless of all the talk, on how they are all just holding hands in perfect harmony. Like ebony and ivory. Snap out of it.

None of us can know if they are racing against each other. Jonas got on the radio before he made his move, so we can assume that his DS approved it. He also dedicated the win to his "best friend" VanHooydonck. He didn't rip the red jersey from Sepp's back. Until someone does it I will think that Sepp is still the one.

 

[dazaau]

Maybe Vingegaard was just better today. Kuss did struggle holding onto the wheel of the rider in front of him at some point.

If the situation had been reversed, and Vingegaard had been in the Jersey, with Kuss - probably - being the stronger on the day. Then I certainly hope Kuss would have attacked as well.

What fantasy is this that if Jonas is in red sepp could attack him to take time and the stage win if he feels stronger. Would never, and has never, happened.

And how do you win for your domestique teammate in the hospital by attacking your domestique teammate in red on the road?

Whatever they did to Jonas to give him "the confidence he needed to win the tour" "help him believe in himself" "take the leader role", - they should dial it back a little 🤣 the guy is savage!

 

[gregrowlerson]

But Roglic basically never attacks from more than 1K out. At least not successfully. It would be strange if he suddenly did it when a teammate is struggling.

Vingegaard does it often and very successfully.

Hey, are you the great Antonio Blobloblo by any chance?

I was thinking that Jonas attacked today because he didn't want to risk becoming known as the next Blobloblo, but don't worry, I'm sure you have more fans than he has.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I can see both sides.

Ultimately, I think that even though I don't much like Vingegaard, when he proves to be the strongest rider in a Grand Tour, I think it's fair he takes it if he can. Just as I'm typing this, Sepp Kuss says the exact same thing on my TV.

This.

Many people didn't even think WVA should have gifted a classic, and this is a grand tour we are talking about.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Very excellent take. It's obvious Kuss is probably stronger willed than most of his teammates because he can control arrogance and focus on the job. He and all of the other guys are Pros and making the sponsors happy is the quickest way to a bigger budget. Well done across the board but Kuss lives in Andorra. He could become one of Spain's favorite riders if not already.

Kuss lives in Andorra?

Appropriately right near Arcalis, LS' favourite climb!

 

[Nick2413]

Were Roglic and Kuss ordered to not follow until 1k to go or did they do it out of the goodness of their hearts? The group was taking it easy for over 2k of Vingegaard’s 4k attack and even Valter was still there till 1k to go despite setting the initial hard pace.

The fact Kuss did nothing to chase until 1k to go and likely dropped 20-30 seconds more than he otherwise would have doesn’t seem fair, he should at least get to try to defend his position.

Maybe he’ll get slammed on Angliru and this will all be irrelevant, but there have now been 2 stages Kuss has been ordered to drop time when he could’ve stayed closer.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Just watched the end of the stage with full attention. So wild. At one point with about 3km to go Roglic was freewheeling they were going so slow. Absolute loser’s mentality from UAE. Absolutely cowardly riding. Seeing those second rate riders attacking off the group as the favorites cruise was just ridiculous. Agree with those saying that, while Vingegaard is assnoying and I think mostly doing his wife’s bidding (and his wife wants him to win), UAE and Mas are the most responsible for Vinge’s big time gain.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Also, if Roglic had attacked there and the others reacted the same as they did to Vingegaard, he absolutely would have put 30” plus on them. And when he attacked, it made sense. Everyone had done nothing to that point. Why would he not give it a go? They took while to catch him. I saw he didn’t get separation, but he did; he was just closed down. Race coverage didn’t show when he stopped pushing so unclear if he sat up for Kuss or was just struggling. When the coverage left Roglic, he was ahead of Mas and Ayuso, with Kuss a few meters back and Blasov behind him; when the camera cut back to Roglic, he was behind Mas, Ayuso, and Vlasov with Kuss on his wheel. So a bit unclear what happened. I don’t think this stage said much about the strength of Roglic or Kuss. But the reaction showed that the competitors are terrified of Vingegaard, IMO, and granting him the win. And the numbers show that Vingegaard is strong as hell.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The biggest takeaway from this stage was the agreement was broken. So from now on such things will always be taken with a grain of salt.