Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2024, stage 6: Some random Carrefour - Yunquera, 185.5k

[Oldermanish]

Even with Lipowitz in the break; going for the win you don't let a gap get over 2 minutes. You never know what could happen in the last 20km to your own guys for GC. In this case everyone's feeble attempt proved that typical plan.

 

[Skalman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1826691709612556332

So if that was you plan, then why the heck didnt you change the plan when Lipowitz was dropped with 60 km to go? you know like a concentrated effort to chase, smartness...

 

[Links2003]

So Bora wanted to loan out the jersey so that the team will not have to work so much, but now they have to work to get Rog in position to attack?? Makes zero sense.
Also Lipowitz... I understand these guys are not the brightest but the basic rules are you stay with your leader (long before Horner said it ) but if you find yourself in the break you have the perfect excuse to not work. And his only job was to be glued to Ben's wheel. That was it. And what did he do? Dumbness squared. It seems as though he thinks he did well today... which is mind boggling. Maybe teams need to hire some smart guys as DS's and not only ex pro riders. Just pay some mathematician/physicist/engineer good money to make some smart decisions.

I was also surprised that Lipowitz did a lot of work in the group. That he missed O'Connor's attack, okay, can happen, of course it shouldn't. If you want to put pressure on the competitors, you have to watch out for your toughest opponent. I thought it was strange that Lipo didn't at least try for 3rd place in the bonus sprint, which could have been achieved without a big fight. To say he had good legs at the finish, but not to go along with the other attacks beforehand is really strange. In my opinion, the DS in the car at Bora don't always cut the best figure either. They have to intervene. Lipo could still have gone with Frigo etc. if he was feeling good.
Lipowitz himself is still very good and he lacks tactical experience, maybe he misses the races in the youth as a lateral entrant. You've seen this some times this season. But then the sports management really has to help. Third place on the stage and the white jersey is great for him. For the team, the result with the huge gap is of course a big problem.

 

[YavorD]

Yeah, sorry, I should have gathered that.

Anyway, I looked it up, and he only had a minute and 29 second lead after the famous breakaway stage. In other words, he had pissed 28 minutes away before, so the other teams might be forgiven for thinking he was under control.

This seems more dangerous to me than Pereiro.

No doubt it's more dangerous.
Pereiro had 1 or 2 low top10s before that Tour so he was probably seen as Martin (to put it like that) type of rider.
O'Connor is probably B-C tier GC rider who is solid all around with a big lead. I'd say 50/50 to win the Vuelta at the moment.

 

[perico]

Tbh most of the big team were kinda thin in the end and some of the bigger teams took turns trying to bring the gap down (Bahrain, UAE, Movistar), but O'Connor was insanely strong. That has to be part of the story as well even though they obviously could have managed it better. Some of the interviews confirm this as well, and so does the gaps to the rest of the break - never has he had better legs, and he probably never will have better legs as well. Couple that with a few teams too afraid of using riders like Dani Martinez, Quintana and riders in similar veins for whatever reason and you get this, but the field definitely wasn't just going slow. Movistar pulled for like 15-20 km with strong rouleurs and did jack.

I don’t think the final climb was hard enough for the Colombian lightweight climbers like Rubio and Nairo.

 

[perico]

They gave 13 minutes to Kiviliev at the 2001 Tour de France.

We're simply back in that era.

O’Connor is on a whole different level from Kivilev, who had never before shown any real talent for GC in the GTs. He was a solid climber, but not near as dangerous as O’Connor on a course not near as draining as the 2001 Tour. There aren’t any stages with multiple HC climbs where you can blow O’Connor up.

 

[jmdirt]

So Bora wanted to loan out the jersey so that the team will not have to work so much, but now they have to work to get Rog in position to attack?? Makes zero sense.
Also Lipowitz... I understand these guys are not the brightest but the basic rules are you stay with your leader (long before Horner said it ) but if you find yourself in the break you have the perfect excuse to not work. And his only job was to be glued to Ben's wheel. That was it. And what did he do? Dumbness squared. It seems as though he thinks he did well today... which is mind boggling. Maybe teams need to hire some smart guys as DS's and not only ex pro riders. Just pay some mathematician/physicist/engineer good money to make some smart decisions.

We've seen that racing before and its not that fun to watch...

 

[scribers]

So if that was you plan, then why the heck didnt you change the plan when Lipowitz was dropped with 60 km to go? you know like a concentrated effort to chase, smartness...

It looks to me the team was in the red after taking up the chase then decided to defend lipos position by letting others work (or not)

 

[noob]

😄

Thank you! This made me realize the DS squads are noobs! Today I am not alone 😁😁

Noobs vs knuckleheads; who would do the better analysis? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤭

 

[noob]

So Bora wanted to loan out the jersey so that the team will not have to work so much, but now they have to work to get Rog in position to attack?? Makes zero sense.
Also Lipowitz... I understand these guys are not the brightest but the basic rules are you stay with your leader (long before Horner said it ) but if you find yourself in the break you have the perfect excuse to not work. And his only job was to be glued to Ben's wheel. That was it. And what did he do? Dumbness squared. It seems as though he thinks he did well today... which is mind boggling. Maybe teams need to hire some smart guys as DS's and not only ex pro riders. Just pay some mathematician/physicist/engineer good money to make some smart decisions.

Welcome back to Lantern Rouge cycling podcast... 🤭

 

[red_flanders]

I get why they let O'Connor have some rope. Chances were he was gonna fade. What I don't get was the last climb, and/or the lead-up into it. He was clearly NOT fading, and the time he'd taken at that point was clearly more than any team wanted him to take. Why did the GC guys, and specifically Roglič/Bora not go full gas on the last climb and eat (maybe) a minute or so into his lead, right then?

If they did, they could say today was a mistake, but they also would have addressed it immediately. They could say they're comfortable with where things are. Now you have a mistake, which isn't going to be addressed for at least a couple days, leading to questions from the press and at least a small bit (if not more) of confusion internally on the team about the plan moving forward. No one is going to buy that you're OK with this position if you're Bora. How is that helpful?

BOC doesn't have enough time to say with any confidence he's gonna win. He could, but there's a lot (well, almost all) of the climbing left. Let's be real, he's Ben O'Connor and he was never going to challenge for the win. His best scenario was losing by 5-8 mins. But now it's pointlessly tricky. Gall can sit on anyone. BOC can sit on anyone. This isn't an original thought, but...

Dumb.

 

[noob]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aJouqhHhwQU

 

[noob]

Horner literally making 2 videos today because of all the knucleheads 🤣🤣🤣

 

[dobrien]

I have my own theory but it's too soon to say definitively one way or another. But I'm absolutely leaning towards the belief RBH did what they did today to make sure Rog isn't the sole focus of everyone else going forward.

While you may be correct, it seems to me they could have achieved the same end without giving BOC nearly 7 minutes...

 

[noob]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VLQgr901kCE


Roglic reaction OMG 😲

 

[scribers]

What did he answer about the 5 minutes deficit to boc?

 

[Rob5091]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/th...ap-secured-by-ben-oconnor-at-vuelta-a-espana/
"it all got out of hand.”
"Today was a bad day, a situation we couldn’t control."
So knuckleheads or burnt out domestiques?

 

[Miha81]

They deliberately made race interesting

Now the chasing begins. Can't wait to see if this will blow back into their face.

 

[movingtarget]

Great win by O'Connor. Team tactics were all over the place.

 

[gunara]

They deliberately made race interesting

It is now interesting. As viewer I can't find anything to complain about the situation. Tactical misjudgment, especially by the favourites, are often what makes cycling interesting. Except when it's by your favourite, of course.

 

[Sciatic]

It is now interesting. As viewer I can't find anything to complain about the situation. Tactical misjudgment, especially by the favourites, are often what makes cycling interesting. Except when it's by your favourite, of course.

Except it was by their DS’s not the riders judgment.

 

[Rackham]

I get why they let O'Connor have some rope. Chances were he was gonna fade. What I don't get was the last climb, and/or the lead-up into it. He was clearly NOT fading, and the time he'd taken at that point was clearly more than any team wanted him to take. Why did the GC guys, and specifically Roglič/Bora not go full gas on the last climb and eat (maybe) a minute or so into his lead, right then?

If they did, they could say today was a mistake, but they also would have addressed it immediately. They could say they're comfortable with where things are. Now you have a mistake, which isn't going to be addressed for at least a couple days, leading to questions from the press and at least a small bit (if not more) of confusion internally on the team about the plan moving forward. No one is going to buy that you're OK with this position if you're Bora. How is that helpful?

BOC doesn't have enough time to say with any confidence he's gonna win. He could, but there's a lot (well, almost all) of the climbing left. Let's be real, he's Ben O'Connor and he was never going to challenge for the win. His best scenario was losing by 5-8 mins. But now it's pointlessly tricky. Gall can sit on anyone. BOC can sit on anyone. This isn't an original thought, but...

Dumb.

There was a moment when one of the UAE guys who was trying to pull spoke to the Reb Bull guys & Patrick Gamper just shrugged. Soon after that UAE stopped doing any work.

It's all a giant bluff from everyone involved. That final climb & the complete lack of reaction from the bunch says it all really.

 

[Gargamel35]

I think we don't realize just how strong top 4 GC (Pog, Vinge, Remco, Rog) riders of the world really are.
They are so strong that if they are alone in a race, EVERYONE is racing for second place. That's why we see stupid tacticts like yesterday. No one will help Bora, even if that means loosing huge time for your own GC guys that are now racing for third place or hoping for miracles. And Bora on it's own is not strong enough to control stages like that.

 

[rghysens]

GC over normally.

I don't know these guys look at a parcours ever but there's no Giro queen stages here

Death by a thousend (or a dozen) cuts is still possible. But Roglic has to be in good enough shape for that.

 

[Remy55]

Has anyone checked the route?

Stage 15, 16 and 19
Roglic will gain at least 1 minute at those MTF on BOC.