Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2025, Stage 11: Bilbao/Bilbo – Bilbao/Bilbo (157.4k)

[RedheadDane]

Love how PCS writes that the stage was cancelled, but then put Pidcock's image next to the "results" on the front page.
"There were no official stage winner, but we're just gonna pretend Pidcock won this one."

 

[tobydawq]

So just when you thought the Vuelta couldn`t get more dreadful they cancel the race]content deleted]. Any decent rider should leave the race. If Vuelta organizers allow their race to be politicized like that there is no way to continue racing.

What exactly should they have done?

 

[Netserk]

What exactly should they have done?

Not much the organisers could have done at that point.

Local and regional police on the other hand clearly failed to maintain public order and safety where it was most needed and predicted beforehand to be so.

So another hiatus from the region is the only response possible.

 

[Bavarianrider]

What exactly should they have done?

They are the organizers, it`s their duty to prevent such events. They should have pressured authorities to take serious measures against those actions.
They should have come out with a strong statement making it clear that they won`t allow their race to be highjacked like that. They could have seen what was coming and relocate the finish. There are many things the ycould have done, they chos eto do virtually nothing.
Once you cater to those kind of events it is extremely hard to come back. They set a very bad example here. Everybody knows now that you can get away with things like that in their race. This could set a very bad example for the future.

 

[Danskebjerge]

So just when you thought the Vuelta couldn`t get more dreadful...[deleted content]

Ultimately, and seen in a larger perspective, it adds to the drama of cycling. I'm not among those who think watching yesterday's stage was a waste of time. It was cycling history unfolding. Regardless of whatever the substance was.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Not

Ultimately, and seen in a larger perspective, it adds to the drama of cycling. I'm not among those who think watching yesterday's stage was a waste of time. It was cycling history unfolding. Regardless of whatever the substance was.

Well, obviously there is some truth in that. But if you are looking for that kind of drama you are plaing a very very dangerous game that will slip out of your control pretty quixkly.

 

[bah]

Ultimately, and seen in a larger perspective, it adds to the drama of cycling. I'm not among those who think watching yesterday's stage was a waste of time. It was cycling history unfolding. Regardless of whatever the substance was.

The 1998 TDF was also "cycling history"; I'm not sure that was a good thing though.

 

[bah]

I admire that woman in the red shirt who came running to assist in holding the barrier.

Yes, credit to those who made the effort to protect the cyclists.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I think you're just going to have to accept that most people have a lower bar for what constitutes culpability and complicity than you do. I recall that back when the sensitive topic of the day was Gianni Moscon racially abusing his fellow professionals, the level of benefit of the doubt you were willing to apply was that it would have taken him having "constantly been complaining how dark-skinned people shouldn't be in sport" (your words) before you would be willing to label him guilty of racism. I'd say that the vast majority would draw the line a lot lower than that - but it does tally up with your stance here, which appears to imply that no protest is valid unless the targets of the protest are actively participating in the action being protested.

Likewise here, I think it is fairly clear that the protesters here do not perceive, say, Matthew Riccitello or Jan Hirt to be actively participating in the action that they are protesting against, but they are visibly appearing in public wearing the badge and slogan of the entity that they are protesting against. To put it in less political terms, if you wore, say, a Glasgow Celtic shirt into a bar in a predominantly Rangers-supporting part of the city, people in that bar will give you grief. They won't need to believe that you actually play for or be employed by Celtic to do so - by repping those colours publicly you become an emblem of that opposition, and a proxy for their dislike for that team.

A frankly excellent post. Thank you

 

[Danskebjerge]

The 1998 TDF was also "cycling history"; I'm not sure that was a good thing though.

It wasn't good as such, but watching it was interesting. Cycling is too a large extent quite boring and morally questionable - but there are things that compensate for that.

 

[fehjammajamma]

For all that your point is made eloquently and with passion (and without the time this morning to answer in kind):No.

If politics impinges on cycling to the extent that you (generalised you: not addressing CD specifically here) cannot comment on one without the other, then at that point in time Cycling News Forum is not the place to comment. The internet has no end of places where one can take that, and anyone here will be able to enrich those places with some understanding of the cycling context.


This is the place to revel in the ultimate insignificance of sport, where we can attach undue importance to unimportant things.

I hope that everyone here has involvements in their lives that are much more worthy of passion and protest, of commitment and comment, than watching guys try to find out who can balance on two wheels faster than another; I expect that for many, that is in the realm of politics, whether local, national or international. But taking delivery at your front door of a parcel is not the time to air your opinions on such matters, neither is when reading a child a bedtime story or a consultation with the doctor; so it is here.

This is a safe place to take refuge from the debates of the bloodier, more twisted sides of life. No-one has the right to impinge on it being that for others.

It is not because I underestimate the importance of politics and the issues in Gaza that I say it, but because I recognise the relentless enormity of it: No politics here.

Hey champ, delete the whole post including the quote, rather than implying by leaving your quote that I somehow agree with what you said.

 

[Cookster15]

Have to say the bans look very very one sided.

No doubt I will get a ban for saying this.

Please use the report button. We can’t be expected to read every post 24x7.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Once you cater to those kind of events it is extremely hard to come back. They set a very bad example here. Everybody knows now that you can get away with things like that in their race. This could set a very bad example for the future.

Yeah I do worry that they've set a dangerous precedent and this could continue for the rest of the race.
I'm pretty sure there were protests and vandalism when the TDF start in San Sébastien back in 92?

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

OK, I think I turn out to end up with such a post every 10 years or so. But so be it.

I have many interests besides cycling, and then other areas and topics that I have strong and emotional opinions about.

On a cycling forum, I only want to discuss cycling. Not as an escapism from what else is going on in the world, but as a warm interest, where I don't want to mix everything up.

This is far from the first time I have witnessed otherwise regular crew members suddenly abandon ship and walking the plank, leaving a cycling forum based solely on non-cycling things. Some forever.

When Bill's Sportspage convertet/partly broke out and became CN and shortly after first forum, a heated debate, again an incident shortly after the turn of the millennium and again shortly after the forum migration in 2009 and most recently a couple of years ago about another ongoing non-cycling hot spot, where an otherwise good debater suddenly left us in an emotional outburst in response to another thread that had to do with the hot spot but nothing to do with cycling.

Otherwise good debaters who contributed really good insights, different POVs, who have suddenly painted themselves into a corner and eithee forcing people to have an opinion on non-cycling things on a cycling forum or simply just emotional outburts in responses to a non-cycling topic.

That's my main complaint when you stray from the path. It rarely brings any value with it.

I remember when I was a young student in 1990, I started with debate forums on UseNet. Starting with strictly defined professional technical forums within programming languages, IT hardware, etc. vs. Forums about culture and language and society.

The latter UseNet forums were closed down or ended up being empty. Destroyed and bombed by users who forced other users to leave the topic, hunting around in circles, which otherwise only a narcissist would do for his own gain.
While the first mentioned technical UseNet forums were always 100% on point and 0% sidestepping.

I want this forum to respect that tone.

That it is recommended to only discuss cycling here, or the dedicated harmless non-cycling sub-forums created with the intention of .

Just because you only want to discuss cycling on a cycling forum does not mean that you do not have clear views on things and life outside of cycling.

Just my 2 cents and I will not respond on this matter the next 10 years again.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/we-cant-go-on-like-this-former-vuelta-a-espana-winner-sepp-kuss-calls-for-increased-safety-after-pro-palestine-protests-lead-to-stage-11-suspension/

All in all if things won't de-escalate i feel that individual parties will start to take action. UCI is IMHO the one to get the blame for it. Not allowing for de-escalation to happen, keeping the fight going. I guess at least it's more balanced now and not one sided.

For example on this forum and by now likely both IPT and Palestinian protestors would get the (short) ban, for situation to settle, failure to do so would only escalate it.

So yeah, what we got is first world version of the conflict and i guess we are trying to deal with it from this perspective. As this now isn't something far away but here and we need to deal with it, as it won't go away and we can't ignore it.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Please use the report button. We can’t be expected to read every post 24x7.

I did use the report button, and yet a post accusing protesters of [content deleted], which I cannot, to quote the guideline provided by @Armchair Cyclist, 'agree/disagree with [...] in a conversation without revealing their [my] political viewpoint' (in large part because it already reveals said user's political viewpoint to say the least) has not been removed while more recent posts in this thread have been. It's not hard to see why people are taking this as one-sided moderation.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean yeah, we can't, for whatever reasons involved, some sort of new age ***, still, IPT and Palestinian protesters can now do the talking for us, both sides. They are not bound by it.

 

[Red Rick]

....

In this case I'm simply inclined to think the mods just missed it or selected a bunch of posts to delete at once and then didn't lick the checkmark on this correctly

 

[James M]

Just to chip in, since this seems to be quite opinionated.

The assumption that no one wants to hear anyones take on anything political, at any level on a cycling forum shouldnt be that discouraging, imo.

It’s generally in everyones best interest to hold that assumption? And having that assumption on a cycling forum isnt that difficult, nor does it take away anything from your personal thoughts on the matter. Just my two cents.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I did use the report button, and yet a post accusing protesters of 'celebrating *** Hamas terrorists', which I cannot, to quote the guideline provided by @Armchair Cyclist, 'agree/disagree with [...] in a conversation without revealing their [my] political viewpoint' (in large part because it already reveals said user's political viewpoint to say the least) has not been removed while more recent posts in this thread have been. It's not hard to see why people are taking this as one-sided moderation.

You are aware that I can't read posts or moderate them when I am working, sleeping, out riding my bike, that sort of thing?

I was able to get online very briefly, between sessions this morning, but the connection was very poor, so it might look like inconsistency, but it was nothing more nefarious than me being thrown offline.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

For all that your point is made eloquently and with passion (and without the time this morning to answer in kind):No.

If politics impinges on cycling to the extent that you (generalised you: not addressing CD specifically here) cannot comment on one without the other, then at that point in time Cycling News Forum is not the place to comment. The internet has no end of places where one can take that, and anyone here will be able to enrich those places with some understanding of the cycling context.


This is the place to revel in the ultimate insignificance of sport, where we can attach undue importance to unimportant things.

I hope that everyone here has involvements in their lives that are much more worthy of passion and protest, of commitment and comment, than watching guys try to find out who can balance on two wheels faster than another; I expect that for many, that is in the realm of politics, whether local, national or international. But taking delivery at your front door of a parcel is not the time to air your opinions on such matters, neither is when reading a child a bedtime story or a consultation with the doctor; so it is here.

This is a safe place to take refuge from the debates of the bloodier, more twisted sides of life. No-one has the right to impinge on it being that for others.

It is not because I underestimate the importance of politics and the issues in Gaza that I say it, but because I recognise the relentless enormity of it: No politics here.

I would suggest that if another person were at my front door, or in my child's bedroom, or at my doctor's office, protesting when those things happen, to ignore the protester and their issue, would be strange. Yesterday, an issue that is important to many, bled into a stage of the Vuelta. To be surprised that the topic then bled over into a forum is strange as well. As I recognized, your job is to moderate that, but to pretend to not understand why people weren't talking about Pidcock, Jonas, Juan, or Mads is not reflective of understanding human nature. Your job is to moderate human nature, for the betterment of a topical forum. It does appear that it wasn't done completely even handedly, based on the perspective of the posters who were banned, but as I pointed out, that could be because of the direct nature of the posts of those who were banned, versus those who expressed opinions that dismissively addressed the protest and protesters. As I also said, that dismissiveness is still a political post and commentary.

My point wasn't to say this should be a place for political discussion, my point was to address the idea that the political commentary that did happen, was inexorably linked to cycling, because of how the stage and protest unfolded, and therefore, understandable. Understandable is not to say excusable, as it relates to the need for a forum to be moderated. You went beyond that, by posting about why nobody was concentrating on the action of the stage. It was completely understandalbe why that happened.

 

[Netserk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1963295697278566570

View: https://x.com/elchiringuitotv/status/1963295697278566570

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

OK, I think I turn out to end up with such a post every 10 years or so. But so be it.

I have many interests besides cycling, and then other areas and topics that I have strong and emotional opinions about.

On a cycling forum, I only want to discuss cycling. Not as an escapism from what else is going on in the world, but as a warm interest, where I don't want to mix everything up.

This is far from the first time I have witnessed otherwise regular crew members suddenly abandon ship and walking the plank, leaving a cycling forum based solely on non-cycling things. Some forever.

When Bill's Sportspage convertet/partly broke out and became CN and shortly after first forum, a heated debate, again an incident shortly after the turn of the millennium and again shortly after the forum migration in 2009 and most recently a couple of years ago about another ongoing non-cycling hot spot, where an otherwise good debater suddenly left us in an emotional outburst in response to another thread that had to do with the hot spot but nothing to do with cycling.

Otherwise good debaters who contributed really good insights, different POVs, who have suddenly painted themselves into a corner and eithee forcing people to have an opinion on non-cycling things on a cycling forum or simply just emotional outburts in responses to a non-cycling topic.

That's my main complaint when you stray from the path. It rarely brings any value with it.

I remember when I was a young student in 1990, I started with debate forums on UseNet. Starting with strictly defined professional technical forums within programming languages, IT hardware, etc. vs. Forums about culture and language and society.

The latter UseNet forums were closed down or ended up being empty. Destroyed and bombed by users who forced other users to leave the topic, hunting around in circles, which otherwise only a narcissist would do for his own gain.
While the first mentioned technical UseNet forums were always 100% on point and 0% sidestepping.

I want this forum to respect that tone.

That it is recommended to only discuss cycling here, or the dedicated harmless non-cycling sub-forums created with the intention of .

Just because you only want to discuss cycling on a cycling forum does not mean that you do not have clear views on things and life outside of cycling.

Just my 2 cents and I will not respond on this matter the next 10 years again.

That used to be easier, when there was a political thread in the non-cycling section of this forum. CN decided that thread was objectionable and deleted it, and created a policy of no politics anywhere on the forum. I understand their reasoning, and while I don't agree it was the correct action, it ain't my forum.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

You went beyond that, by posting about why nobody was concentrating on the action of the stage. It was completely understandalbe why that happened.

It was intended to be a suggestion that we move back onto our raison d'etre as a cycling forum, other matters having been discussed at length and effectively to the limit of what is possible within the rules here. Sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I will also say that this Vuelta has been kind of boring, and yesterday, Pidcock's attack was maybe the most exciting event so far in this Vuelta, and I would have loved to have seen how the stage unfolded, if there hadn't been protests. There were however, protests.