Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2025, Stage 17: O/El Barco de Valdeorras – Alto de El Morredero (143.2k)

[movingtarget]

Pidcock ;looked good <Hindley might regret not attacking from further out as neither Vingegaard or Almeida looked good. Nice win by Pellizzari. The final mountain stage could be an interesting one. Even a mediocre ride by Vingehaard in the TT should still be enough.

 

[Oldman]

I do think Almeida should have had better team support here ...Jonas is tired and they could take this if he had someone up there in top 10 fighting for him and with him. If I were him i would not be happy

Ayuso and the rest of the team finished 23 minutes down; riding in together. While solidarity might be admirable it's really not when you all abandon your leader to ride in with the most Selfish Rider in history. Soler was 19 minutes down but wouldn't have been much help on the last, steep 6km anyway. If today's team bonding session is any indication of attitudes to come you only keep Pellizzari, Grobssshartner and Soler (for comic relief). Fire the rest of the lot.

 

[Oldman]

Pidcock ;looked good <Hindley might regret not attacking from further out as neither Vingegaard or Almeida looked good. Nice win by Pellizzari. The final mountain stage could be an interesting one. Even a mediocre ride by Vingehaard in the TT should still be enough.

Pidcock did what his normal strength would be: a good, last kick on a hill. Riccatello saved the group from humilation by Pellizzari. They are tired.

 

[Red Rick]

The section after the final hairpin was heading in the opposite direction to most of the climb.

Looks like the overall effect of the wind was really bad, Pellizzari only had a ~1710 VAM on a climb that's normally ideal for an absolute 30 minute watts bomb.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pidcock did what his normal strength would be: a good, last kick on a hill. Riccatello saved the group from humilation by Pellizzari. They are tired.

Doing a kick on a 1-km mole hill is different than at the end of a difficult climb with almost 10% average grade. He was clearly very good and never troubled on the steepest sections.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Looks like the overall effect of the wind was really bad, Pellizzari only had a ~1710 VAM on a climb that's normally ideal for an absolute 30 minute watts bomb.

Remember that before the final climb there was already strong pace by Bora (uphill section with a nasty kick at the end). They were far from fresh at the bottom of the actual 9 km climb.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I do hope that this year's miserable spectacle brings the curtain down on the recent hockey stick design trend in the Vuelta. It worked - surprisingly well in fact - for a little while after the lightning-in-a-bottle 2012 race's success, but even then some of the most dramatic stages were outlying mountain stage designs (take 2015 Cercedilla for example).

There's nothing functionally wrong with Unipuerto, as part of a varied selection of designs, and there are some climbs that geographically necessitate it. Preferably a Unipuerto stage should be isolated from other mountain stages, or at the start of a mountain block (as ensuing stages would often mean attacks would be unlikely from distance, so an MTF is the best way to ensure action in the first stage of a block), and preferably, unless it is specifically in the Montevergine role (which, being stage 17, is not really relevant), on the kind of climb that is hard enough that gaps should be expected regardless (Mont Ventoux, for example, is an almost perfect climb for Unipuerto - long, notorious, steep and challenging regardless of where it comes in a stage).

Today, we had a climb that fit the bill as a suitable climb for a Unipuerto stage, but it was placed directly after yesterday's well designed intermediate stage (even taking out of the equation what happened yesterday, the GC men were always happy to let the break have yesterday rather than fight it out, because it's not worth destroying yourself to gain 20 seconds yesterday to lose 20 minutes today) there's been several tamely raced, functionally Unipuerto nothing stages in this race already that, in conjunction with the atmosphere around the race with the multiple stages that had been affected, seems to lend a soporific, disinterested feeling to the race that in all honesty appears to be permeating a large amount of the audience as well as the riders.

Now, of course the fact that the best-designed and best-raced stage of the race got cut to ribbons by circumstances outside the riders' control affects this, but it just seems like riders don't feel like time can be won or lost and don't seem to be going about contesting it with any great conviction. It feels like most of the riders at the business end of the GC are more or less happy with what they've got and just want the race to be over and done with. And while as a fan it is infuriating to watch such negative, uninteresting racing, I can't really blame them for that either.

However the Vuelta is clearly due some kind of experiment or change-up to the format. Maybe the abject lack of successful home riders or teams here may spur something (it often does), but the racing has become predictable and stale in recent years, and we've also now had multiple recent editions which have been adversely affected from an organisatorial point of view - the political disruptions this year and the two farcical (and ultimately unnecessary) weather-related neutralisations in 2023 (to say nothing of the way the race was settled that year having more in common with the old El Correo-El Pueblo Vasco days of the Vuelta where the organisers would frequently get bullied by big overseas teams into giving them concessions and the race leadership was handed out by such teams as a consolation prize to buy loyalty to bigger name riders in the Giro or Tour) have left us with multiple recent editions that have felt like a really retrograde step for the Vuelta.

A lot of the time, parcours trends develop and change over time. I feel that the Vuelta has been standing still a little too long with its current style, and organisatorial shortcomings and issues outside of their control have only served to exacerbate these problems in recent editions. Unipublic need to react - yes, the rumoured Canarian stages next year are a big ticket innovation - but they have to be wary of thinking that that is in and of itself sufficient intrigue - we don't need it to be a gimmick appended to the end of 17 stages of the same old same old.

 

[Red Rick]

Doing a kick on a 1-km mole hill is different than at the end of a difficult climb with almost 10% average grade. He was clearly very good and never troubled on the steepest sections.

As long as you're under your under the limit a bit that anaerobic ability can definitely make a big difference at the end of such a climb.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

As long as you're under your under the limit a bit that anaerobic ability can definitely make a big difference at the end of such a climb.

This already proves that Pidcock was good today. Obviously it's all relative, by Vingo's standard it wasn't good.

 

[Red Rick]

Remember that before the final climb there was already strong pace by Bora (uphill section with a nasty kick at the end). They were far from fresh at the bottom of the actual 9 km climb.

There's under 5 minutes of real climbing before it, the accumulate effort is still only like 35 minutes, and I checked and it's not like they were doing 2k+ on that kicker before it starts. The VAM is lower than the top 4 on Ventoux and comparable to Simon Yates on Finestre, which is twice as long and includes 7km of gravel.

Also, they actually hit the climb with a tiny dowhill so they have a flying start at 60km/h

 

[Red Rick]

This already proves that Pidcock was good today. Obviously it's all relative, by Vingo's standard it wasn't good.

Yes, we can confirm that Almeida and Vingegaard were bad, but we can't really say who between Pellizzari, Hindley and Pidcock was the strongest rider.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Looks like the overall effect of the wind was really bad, Pellizzari only had a ~1710 VAM on a climb that's normally ideal for an absolute 30 minute watts bomb.

You don't think it's possible that the overall level was just low? Vingegaard and Almeida both looked terrible and even then Pellizzari was arguably struggling more than them in the steepest kilometres.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

You don't think it's possible that the overall level was just low? Vingegaard and Almeida both looked terrible and even then Pellizzari was arguably struggling more than them in the steepest kilometres.

Pellizzari worked for Hindley and still won convincingly. The overall level was low but it's also true that they just let him go and for some time there was kinda tactical stalemate in the group.

 

[Red Rick]

You don't think it's possible that the overall level was just low? Vingegaard and Almeida both looked terrible and even then Pellizzari was arguably struggling more than them in the steepest kilometres.

Low? Obviously

But not this low.

It also doesn't make much sense for the worst 30 minute performance of the entire year to happen in the same field that did the fastest on average Angliru after a 200km 41kph average stage less than a week earlier.

 

[tobydawq]

Low? Obviously

But not this low.

It also doesn't make much sense for the worst 30 minute performance of the entire year to happen in the same field that did the fastest on average Angliru after a 200km 41kph average stage less than a week earlier.

I think it was quite evident how much headwind there was. Maybe the scorched earth helped with the association but it looked a bit like an Etna stage even though it was much steeper.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

O

Low? Obviously

But not this low.

It also doesn't make much sense for the worst 30 minute performance of the entire year to happen in the same field that did the fastest on average Angliru after a 200km 41kph average stage less than a week earlier.

On Angliru, the tactics were almost perfect for a fast ascent with a proper pace up the easy section and then Almeida riding tempo almost all the way up the steep section. Here, it was the opposite with Bora nuking the uncategorised ramp and all the slowing down and looking at each other in the second half of the climb.

 

[Red Rick]

I do hope that this year's miserable spectacle brings the curtain down on the recent hockey stick design trend in the Vuelta. It worked - surprisingly well in fact - for a little while after the lightning-in-a-bottle 2012 race's success, but even then some of the most dramatic stages were outlying mountain stage designs (take 2015 Cercedilla for example).

There's nothing functionally wrong with Unipuerto, as part of a varied selection of designs, and there are some climbs that geographically necessitate it. Preferably a Unipuerto stage should be isolated from other mountain stages, or at the start of a mountain block (as ensuing stages would often mean attacks would be unlikely from distance, so an MTF is the best way to ensure action in the first stage of a block), and preferably, unless it is specifically in the Montevergine role (which, being stage 17, is not really relevant), on the kind of climb that is hard enough that gaps should be expected regardless (Mont Ventoux, for example, is an almost perfect climb for Unipuerto - long, notorious, steep and challenging regardless of where it comes in a stage).

Today, we had a climb that fit the bill as a suitable climb for a Unipuerto stage, but it was placed directly after yesterday's well designed intermediate stage (even taking out of the equation what happened yesterday, the GC men were always happy to let the break have yesterday rather than fight it out, because it's not worth destroying yourself to gain 20 seconds yesterday to lose 20 minutes today) there's been several tamely raced, functionally Unipuerto nothing stages in this race already that, in conjunction with the atmosphere around the race with the multiple stages that had been affected, seems to lend a soporific, disinterested feeling to the race that in all honesty appears to be permeating a large amount of the audience as well as the riders.

Now, of course the fact that the best-designed and best-raced stage of the race got cut to ribbons by circumstances outside the riders' control affects this, but it just seems like riders don't feel like time can be won or lost and don't seem to be going about contesting it with any great conviction. It feels like most of the riders at the business end of the GC are more or less happy with what they've got and just want the race to be over and done with. And while as a fan it is infuriating to watch such negative, uninteresting racing, I can't really blame them for that either.

However the Vuelta is clearly due some kind of experiment or change-up to the format. Maybe the abject lack of successful home riders or teams here may spur something (it often does), but the racing has become predictable and stale in recent years, and we've also now had multiple recent editions which have been adversely affected from an organisatorial point of view - the political disruptions this year and the two farcical (and ultimately unnecessary) weather-related neutralisations in 2023 (to say nothing of the way the race was settled that year having more in common with the old El Correo-El Pueblo Vasco days of the Vuelta where the organisers would frequently get bullied by big overseas teams into giving them concessions and the race leadership was handed out by such teams as a consolation prize to buy loyalty to bigger name riders in the Giro or Tour) have left us with multiple recent editions that have felt like a really retrograde step for the Vuelta.

A lot of the time, parcours trends develop and change over time. I feel that the Vuelta has been standing still a little too long with its current style, and organisatorial shortcomings and issues outside of their control have only served to exacerbate these problems in recent editions. Unipublic need to react - yes, the rumoured Canarian stages next year are a big ticket innovation - but they have to be wary of thinking that that is in and of itself sufficient intrigue - we don't need it to be a gimmick appended to the end of 17 stages of the same old same old.

Today is a situation that's hard to salvage, with the 2 best climbers being somewhat unexpectedly also the #3 and #4 neutralizing each other, and the top 2 being really bad, as well as having a big headwind.

I doubt this stage gets much better with more attrition, it's not like Picon Blanco delivered an all timer stage last year.

The main problem with today is the headwind and tomorrow's ITT. Aside from that there's plenty of other stages I have more issues with than this being a 3200m desnivel unipuerto stage.

 

[Oldman]

Doing a kick on a 1-km mole hill is different than at the end of a difficult climb with almost 10% average grade. He was clearly very good and never troubled on the steepest sections.

....today.
I think he has potential to be a serious GT contender. IMO he has so much he does well that pays well he doesn't want to risk losing those skills in the grind to be a winning GT rider. Like MvP. Why wreck a good thing?

 

[Valv.Piti]

The stage was raced as well as it could have been apart from the last 8. Strong team hard pacing the whole day, its hard to sit in the peloton, good riders just flat out dropping on "easy terrain", peloton being strung out. Then Bora nukes the lead in to the climb which reminded me of how Movistar nuked the lead in to Le Semnoz in 2013. Similar scenario, 15 riders in the lead group before the actual climb begins after a pretty easy day on paper. But of course, Vingegaard and Almeida were equally bad, so nothing happens. That has nothing to do with a route. And the Vuelta has been exceptionally unlucky with two of the best stages being shortened.

Of course though, there's a lot to do a whole lot better, and I think, unironically, it has something to do with not including these small, very steep muritos that it's known for these days. That would solve some of the first week at the very least. I think the second weak was good, and I think the 3rd week is mediocre to decent, but really, really lacks a stage where something can be done from further out unless you wanna include stage 16 and 20, but its not very obvious at all on these stages.

 

[Cycling111]

Pellizzari worked for Hindley and still won convincingly. The overall level was low but it's also true that they just let him go and for some time there was kinda tactical stalemate in the group.

What a difference between Pellizzari and Ayuso/Soler. We can include Vine, although he's been more involved in help his leader.

Pellizzari has shown that can be a good teammate and also win a stage.

Today, Vine and Ayuso would be thinking about the time trial. Ganna seems in poor sahpe; they can win another stage, that's all that matters to them.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Finally watching...Pogacar should have ridden. He would have waxed these clowns.

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

Today, Vine and Ayuso would be thinking about the time trial. Ganna seems in poor sahpe; they can win another stage, that's all that matters to them.

There's also the possible 100 wins in a season looming ahead for UAE. Only 18 to go.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Another dead stage in a dead race.

 

[KZD]

Happy that Pellizzari won, since last year's Giro that I've been wanting him to take a win like this.

Pidcock with a strong resurgence, helped by the fact that this was a unipuerto. Hindley trailing him close though, so third place is by no means decided.

Vingegaard and Almeida looked both gassed, unfortunately I think it will be very hard for Almeida to turn things around on GC.

 

[gunara]

Wishful thinking by the Belgian mafia...

I hope he improves massively, convincingly, headache-inducingly next year, we don't have enough internal ego-bruising wars in the peloton, one of few things left to enjoy these days