Vuelta Ciclista a Castilla y León - 13th to 17th April

[Dekker_Tifosi]

lol, you expect in a sprinters stage that Mollema will be dropped?

Not going to drop Mollema easily anyway with this form. only Contador an Anton on serious mountain stage. And tomorrow is not one.

And if you think Porte could have won this tour or keep up with Tondo, Mollema, etc, you are complety off this world. But ok.

 

[The Hitch]

lol, you expect in a sprinters stage that Mollema will be dropped?

Not going to drop Mollema easily anyway with this form. only Contador an Anton on serious mountain stage. And tomorrow is not one.

And if you think Porte could have won this tour or keep up with Tondo, Mollema, etc, you are complety off this world. But ok.

Tondo and Mollema arent going to be top 5 ing the Tour.

Porte apparently is.

 

[Moviefan1203]

There's no respect for Contador around here. I wonder if that has something to do with him not being anglo-saxon like.

It has to do with him being a doper.

 

[Ryaguas]

It has to do with him being a doper.

That would be a pretty double standard... if you think that He's the only one... I think that 80 - 90% of the peloton is in that kind of programs... but well... that is clinic topic...

 

[hrotha]

That would be a pretty double standard... if you think that He's the only one... I think that 80 - 90% of the peloton is in that kind of programs... but well... that is clinic topic...

"In a program", not "in that kind of program".

Anyway, there's enough non-Clinic reasons to dislike Contador. Iker_Baqueiro, if those reasons don't do it for you, fair enough, but don't go around accusing other people of xenophobia and ethnocentrism just because those reasons are enough for them.

 

[Ryaguas]

"In a program", not "in that kind of program".

Anyway, there's enough non-Clinic reasons to dislike Contador. Iker_Baqueiro, if those reasons don't do it for you, fair enough, but don't go around accusing other people of xenophobia and ethnocentrism just because those reasons are enough for them.

"in that kind of programs" you missed the "S"... with the "S" you see that I'm generalizing...

mmmm I've never asked about that... What are those things that you ppl dont like about Contador?

 

[hrotha]

"in that kind of programs" you missed the "S"... with the "S" you see that I'm generalizing...

mmmm I've never asked about that... What are those things that you ppl dont like about Contador?

"Program", "programs", bah (not that it matters, since this is just an innocent conversation about TV programs).

Anyway, I think Contador is a very insincere person, way too worried about the public perception of his persona, he's all about appearences, brash but insecure at the same time, and tactically inept.

 

[The Hitch]

Anyway, I think Contador is a very insincere person, way too worried about the public perception of his persona, he's all about appearences, brash but insecure at the same time, and tactically inept.

Neither of those things are that bad are they. Insecure, tactically inept. That only hurts him. When I see someone whose insecure, I feel sorry for them. I dont hate someone for making a mistake that only really hurts them, either.

I guess you see weakness

What else is there (other than the clinic of course, though ones opinions on doping influence that). I suppose his lying (about clinic) but I believe there are hundreds of athletes with more fame and money than contador doing the same, and thousands with less, so it wont influence my opinion of him as an athlete too much.

For me, among the things that i find likeable are his near death experiences with brain hemorages (was it) and his brothers illness ( i know some people dont count those 2 as variables, but I do) and most importantly the fact that hes fighting for the wins, and up there, not just in the big races, but the small ones too.

And I find him quite humble in interviews too.

Hes not my favourite cyclist and I usually cheer against him but as the main representative of this thing of ours, hes good.

 

[Ryaguas]

"Program", "programs", bah (not that it matters, since this is just an innocent conversation about TV programs).

Anyway, I think Contador is a very insincere person, way too worried about the public perception of his persona, he's all about appearences, brash but insecure at the same time, and tactically inept.

PWND

mmmm That thing that He's too worried 'bout the public perception of his persona is maybe something that He learned from the Hog and trek... dont know... is a thouhgt...
What I dont like about him is what happened last year... He saw when Andrew facked up his chain with a wrong change but He said that He didnt see anything and stuff... He should have said that this is a race and We can't stop every moment for somebody that had a problem... He would have won more fans that day if He said that... but anyway... Contador rules!

 

[hrotha]

Neither of those things are that bad are they. Insecure, tactically inept. That only hurts him. When I see someone whose insecure, I feel sorry for them. I dont hate someone for making a mistake that only really hurts them, either.

I guess you see weakness

What else is there (other than the clinic of course, though ones opinions on doping influence that). I suppose his lying (about clinic) but I believe there are hundreds of athletes with more fame and money than contador doing the same, and thousands with less, so it wont influence my opinion of him as an athlete too much.

For me, among the things that i find likeable are his near death experiences with brain hemorages (was it) and his brothers illness ( i know some people dont count those 2 as variables, but I do) and most importantly the fact that hes fighting for the wins, and up there, not just in the big races, but the small ones too.

And I find him quite humble in interviews too.

Hes not my favourite cyclist and I usually cheer against him but as the main representative of this thing of ours, hes good.

Haha, no, I'm a pretty insecure guy myself. It's more about how he comes across because of the combination of his brashness and his insecurity. I'd say (but this is so open to interpretation it'd be pointless to discuss it in any depth) that was apparent in the Grand Bornand incident with Klöden. His lying about the Clinic is certainly one of the most important reasons why I dislike him, but I already had a mild dislike before this story broke out. Mind you, it wasn't standard pro rider lying about having been a naughty boy - he toured several TV programs to tout his innocence and turned the whole thing into a circus.

I think his perceived humility in public is a result of his Spanish upbringing (as a general rule, we value humility and we don't like arrogance even when it's justified), not an actual personality trait of his - i.e. it's a cultural trait, learned, but that's not what he really is like.

All of this is my personal opinion, of course.

 

[greenedge]

Contador is just like sastre. Modest and cares for his family. They are also both small too, yet tough. Sastre is however not a patron of the peleton where contador is. Used to dislike contador for the dropped chain along with other minor thinks like stopping LA's comeback tour victory ( jks ) but now hope he is not convicted of using drugs as i now like him.

 

[greenedge]

lol, you expect in a sprinters stage that Mollema will be dropped?

Not going to drop Mollema easily anyway with this form. only Contador an Anton on serious mountain stage. And tomorrow is not one.

And if you think Porte could have won this tour or keep up with Tondo, Mollema, etc, you are complety off this world. But ok.

Yeah i know but i forgot to put in the fact if it was a mountain stage. Mollema is a good superdomestique who could win short stage races. I think Porte could have the potential to be a GT rider, maybe not on current form but the Giro was tough last yr and he did well then. He has not been racing much as of late too. Have to say i would not like to be Riis with him as main GT dude over Contador for moment but he is relatively young. He is not fulfilling expectations mad from last yr but he looked viable as a GT option. He made some mistakes in this race and is not so good. That was more wishful thinking too about the podium. Just want everyone to remember last yr his performances.

 

[canyonball]

I think his perceived humility in public is a result of his Spanish upbringing (as a general rule, we value humility and we don't like arrogance even when it's justified), not an actual personality trait of his - i.e. it's a cultural trait, learned, but that's not what he really is like.

That would lead to some discussion but my perception as an iberian is a tiny bit diferent. I understand what you're saying in "we value humility", but I think that is a cultural trait that applies to the self, as in a personal quest for humility. The lack of self estime...welll that's blatantly obvious, you just have to walk out the door.

But

I will take as an example footbal/soccer as It is a big part of portuguese culture and it more or less refrains some of the portuguese traits. I can tell you the guys who are on top, those who get glorified aren't the humble ones, but those with a justified arrogance. Mourinho, Jesus, Villas Boas just to name the recent ones.

I will also take as an example cycling. Naming Cândido Barbosa, the "chosen one", though I can't stand hear him talk for more than five seconds. Naming Jose azevedo and Sérgio Paulinho as good riders in its own rigth, though I always will think they lack ambition or confidence. And finally naming Machado, as an exeption to the rule as I think he's a good person, just utterly genuine and with his heart on his mouth.

 

[roundabout]

The real question here is greenedge in someway related to acf94?

 

[Kwibus]

Yeah i know but i forgot to put in the fact if it was a mountain stage. Mollema is a good superdomestique who could win short stage races. I think Porte could have the potential to be a GT rider, maybe not on current form but the Giro was tough last yr and he did well then. He has not been racing much as of late too. Have to say i would not like to be Riis with him as main GT dude over Contador for moment but he is relatively young. He is not fulfilling expectations mad from last yr but he looked viable as a GT option. He made some mistakes in this race and is not so good. That was more wishful thinking too about the podium. Just want everyone to remember last yr his performances.

I'm pretty confident Mollema will be a better GT rider compared to Porte. Porte is incredibly overrated. He has a great TT, but he will lose minutes on every single MTF there is. Unless he improves his climbing skill there is no way he will ride another top10 in a GT.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah i know but i forgot to put in the fact if it was a mountain stage. Mollema is a good superdomestique who could win short stage races. I think Porte could have the potential to be a GT rider, maybe not on current form but the Giro was tough last yr and he did well then. He has not been racing much as of late too. Have to say i would not like to be Riis with him as main GT dude over Contador for moment but he is relatively young. He is not fulfilling expectations mad from last yr but he looked viable as a GT option. He made some mistakes in this race and is not so good. That was more wishful thinking too about the podium. Just want everyone to remember last yr his performances.

Remember that Tondó was 6th at the Vuelta last year. That's a better GT result than Porte has to date. You could point out the weak field at the Vuelta and in turn I will point out that Tondó didn't get a headstart. Tondó was 3rd before the Monte Zoncolán stage of the Giro (he'd also been in the L'Aquila break) and had been the only guy to break the heads of state group on Monte Terminillo. If he hadn't been ill in week 2 (he said he'd have dropped out on the L'Aquila stage if he and Sastre hadn't been in the break) then he may have finished ahead of Porte, but that's all conjecture. Either way, I would expect that in a difficult climbing Tour Tondó would beat Porte 8 times out of 10.

Not that Castilla y León '11 is a difficult climbing Tour.

I will take as an example footbal/soccer as It is a big part of portuguese culture and it more or less refrains some of the portuguese traits. I can tell you the guys who are on top, those who get glorified aren't the humble ones, but those with a justified arrogance. Mourinho, Jesus, Villas Boas just to name the recent ones.

I will also take as an example cycling. Naming Cândido Barbosa, the "chosen one", though I can't stand hear him talk for more than five seconds. Naming Jose azevedo and Sérgio Paulinho as good riders in its own rigth, though I always will think they lack ambition or confidence. And finally naming Machado, as an exeption to the rule as I think he's a good person, just utterly genuine and with his heart on his mouth.

Not mentioning Cristiano Ronaldo, the most hatable man in kickball?

I also think Machado has certainly caused a bit of trouble with his youthful inability to curb his tendency to attack. The aggression and excitement makes him entertaining as well as talented (something the likes of Mourinho never manage, god are his teams ever boring). Sérgio Paulinho used to be relatively aggressive (never as kamikaze as Machado, but few people are) but almost all ambition has been beaten out of him in the pro ranks. I worry for Machado going the same way.

Barbosa is just seriously annoying and thank God the days of him podiuming the Volta and staying with the elites on the Alto da Torre are over. Bad, bad old days.

I'm pretty confident Mollema will be a better GT rider compared to Porte. Porte is incredibly overrated. He has a great TT, but he will lose minutes on every single MTF there is. Unless he improves his climbing skill there is no way he will ride another top10 in a GT.

Well, I think given the defensive way it's often raced he may one day get a top 10 at the Tour, but he is not a threat to win a GT and probably not podium either. His climbing is decent but a TT is where he makes most of his gains. The Tour is the most likely to offer a balance he can take advantage of, unless the Vuelta serves up a route like 2007 again.

 

[theyoungest]

Remember that Tondó was 6th at the Vuelta last year. That's a better GT result than Porte has to date. You could point out the weak field at the Vuelta and in turn I will point out that Tondó didn't get a headstart. Tondó was 3rd before the Monte Zoncolán stage of the Giro (he'd also been in the L'Aquila break) and had been the only guy to break the heads of state group on Monte Terminillo. If he hadn't been ill in week 2 (he said he'd have dropped out on the L'Aquila stage if he and Sastre hadn't been in the break) then he may have finished ahead of Porte, but that's all conjecture. Either way, I would expect that in a difficult climbing Tour Tondó would beat Porte 8 times out of 10.

Are there any riders who haven't claimed they were ill during the Giro? Evans, Tondo, Mollema, Porte himself... I assume it was just a shock to the system, all that crap weather.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, fatigue + godawful weather + crashes, all adds up.

Evans - had embarrassingly bad team support, all the work himself, fatigue + weather
Mollema, Porte and Tondó - all in first GT, Mollema and Porte young and neo-pros, Tondó not so used to racing such distances in that kind of weather.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah i know but i forgot to put in the fact if it was a mountain stage. Mollema is a good superdomestique who could win short stage races. I think Porte could have the potential to be a GT rider, maybe not on current form but the Giro was tough last yr and he did well then. He has not been racing much as of late too. Have to say i would not like to be Riis with him as main GT dude over Contador for moment but he is relatively young. He is not fulfilling expectations mad from last yr but he looked viable as a GT option. He made some mistakes in this race and is not so good. That was more wishful thinking too about the podium. Just want everyone to remember last yr his performances.

You say that you think Porte will improve but Mollema not because Porte is young but actually Mollema is 2 years younger.

And its based on his performance last year that I say Porte will never become a gt contender.

Seriously, he was given it on a plate a once in a lifetime opportunity. 12 minutes over GC guys. 2 minutes over a domestique David Arroyo. and he lost the jersey after the first mountain stage 2 days later.


He lost 5 minutes on the Monte Grappa. 5 Minutes. With his whole team working for him, with the prospect of a gt podium, the malia rosa on his shoulders.

He lost the entirety of the 12 minute lead 2 days later. 12 minutes over 3 mountain stages. Not on.

And the irony is that while it may look like im being sarcastic and he had some other performance that season which people base his "greatness" on, the fact was there actually wasnt. This is FOR REAL that performance you talk about when you say "look at last year".

How on earth this performance is supposed to suggest a gt contender I dont know.

Far more impressive was his performance in San Sebastian. Now over a one day race he can put his talents to some use.

 

[maltiv]

I think most of the Porte hype is based on people thinking that he's younger than he is because he got his first real result at 25. He's older than guys like Andy Schleck and Gesink...

 

[hrotha]

Personally I think he could become like Tony Martin and terrorize the one-week stage race calendar. Problem is, he's not younger than Martin. Anyway, I could see him getting a GT top 10 or two if he improves his climbing, but right now I don't see any reason to expect more from him. I agree that San Sebastián was perhaps a more telling performance.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I also fear that he's not as strong a TT rider as Martin, and about the same level of climber.

 

[hrotha]

I also fear that he's not as strong a TT rider as Martin

He's not, but I was pretty impressed by his TT WC ride and that's one thing he can definitely improve on with more experience and years of being a pro. Not sure he'll ever catch up with Martin, though. Martin is really good.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

For once, Sky got it absolutely right, and Ben Swift wins with ease, the leadout pulled him away from everybody and nobody looked like closing him up.

Ventoso secures the points jersey (double success for Movistar) with 2nd, though his transponder wasn't working so we have some confusing results.

The transponders have Swift ahead of Rubén Pérez, Bos, Belletti and Pelucchi; the timing screens have Swift ahead of Pérez, Pelucchi, Bos and Belletti.

The naked eye says Swift ahead of Ventoso, then the transponders are correct after that.

Unsurprisingly, no GC change, so Xavier Tondó wins the grey jersey.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Yeah i know but i forgot to put in the fact if it was a mountain stage. Mollema is a good superdomestique who could win short stage races. I think Porte could have the potential to be a GT rider, maybe not on current form but the Giro was tough last yr and he did well then. He has not been racing much as of late too. Have to say i would not like to be Riis with him as main GT dude over Contador for moment but he is relatively young. He is not fulfilling expectations mad from last yr but he looked viable as a GT option. He made some mistakes in this race and is not so good. That was more wishful thinking too about the podium. Just want everyone to remember last yr his performances.

you do realise mollema beat porte on basically every climb at the giro.

remove the breakaway and strade stage and mollema was in white.
Remove the tts and mollema was wayy in front.

Porte is a much better prospect in itt and hilly races. He will never win a GT.