Vuelta a España Vuelta España 2023 stage 10, Valladolid - Valladolid 25.6km ITT

[GroupDK]

Vingegaard isn't going to be able to repeat his Tour level here. That should be obvious now after losing quite a bit of time on such a short course.

What tour form are you exactly referring to, that he shall recover, as in that "you" got clear signs that it's lost?
Besides from a loss today on an extremely flat power trial with 56km/h in avg..
what climby stages sofar are you referring to.. where he has shown that he lost his tour form?.
Hmm placing Evenepoel on one of the only mountain stages sofar, and coming in with Roglic, certainly aint it.
Maybe I missed a stage?

 

[dennisdy]

Roglic big fav now, at least for me. Remco seems to be quite disappointed, hard times for him to come in the high mountains, I guess.

Don’t really think that Kuss beeing still in red is an advantage for Jumbo though

I agree that Roglic has to be the favorite, but I disagree with you about Kuss. Remember stage 11 of last year's Tour when JV kept throwing attacks at Pogacar? Once again their top three can attack Remco and he will have to respond.

 

[Andy schleck]

Kuss will fade in the high mountains. That is a sure deal, no one has ever won a GT after doing 2 GT's. Don't tell me kuss is the kind of rider who can do it. Roglic is the number one favourite for me because Remco seems to be worse than him in the mountains.

Kuss probably will not win, but he can have a relevant impact for a victory of roglic or vingegaard.

 

[Lequack]

GC Kuss is keeping the hope alive! Amazing ride. Also very strong by Remco and Roglic as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699089428562444761

View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1699089428562444761

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699093128177668518

View: https://twitter.com/JumboVismaRoad/status/1699093128177668518

 

[ontheroad]

Vingegaard isn't going to be able to repeat his Tour level here. That should be obvious now after losing quite a bit of time on such a short course.

I think this is correct. He won’t win the race on the road since he has clearly lost watts from the Tour. They’re not going to magically appear in the final week of this race as he appears a notch below his best level. But Jumbo could still use him in a longer range attack and try to win the race that way.

If I’m in Remcos shoes I’d be following Roglic for now but Vingegaard and Kuss can benefit from that. Remco has to gamble though as he simply can’t cover every move. He needs to lean on UAE in chasing down the Jumbo attacks. Tactics could yet play a huge part in deciding the winner of this race which makes it more intriguing than a straight up watts gunfight.

 

[Blanco]

If Remco does that He will make a huge mistake. He needs to pick who to follow and I think that rider has not changed.

He was picking Vingegaard, at least that's what he was saying. We'll see already on Tourmalet if this is a wise decision.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

11

-

LANDA Mikel

Bahrain - Victorious

3:21

Just a fraction more Zubeldia-ing, and then....

 

[VeloMaster]

Roglic : " I don't complain" about his result today
wonder if he is trolling Remco ???

Like Rogla, I find Wonder Boy increasingly tiresome.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulation to Filippo Ganna for winning the ITT in a grand style.

Rarely we see an ITT on where so many riders have so much at stake. World champion has came ahead of the Olympic champion. Still i would say that the Olympic champion is more pleased today. Due to minimal amount of time lost on such stage profile. Kuss surprised a bit and managed to do a great ITT. Remaining firmly in the leaders jersey. Soler rather far ahead of his teammates. Where Almeida came ahead of Ayuso. Jonas not that great today still his terrain is coming. A proper GT so far and hopefully it stays like this for the remainder of the race.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

What are the rules about drafting behind a rider you are overtaking in an ITT? I thought I recalled a strict prohibition on taking the line immediately behind them within a certain distance, but Evenepoel certainly tucked in well behind Landa for as long ass he considered it valuable. (And other riders probably did the same, I only watched a selection of today's stage)

 

[ManicJack]

What are the rules about drafting behind a rider you are overtaking in an ITT? I thought I recalled a strict prohibition on taking the line immediately behind them within a certain distance, but Evenepoel certainly tucked in well behind Landa for as long ass he considered it valuable. (And other riders probably did the same, I only watched a selection of today's stage)

It may have just been the camera angle, but he looked to be about as close to a wheel as you would want in that situation.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

What are the rules about drafting behind a rider you are overtaking in an ITT? I thought I recalled a strict prohibition on taking the line immediately behind them within a certain distance, but Evenepoel certainly tucked in well behind Landa for as long ass he considered it valuable. (And other riders probably did the same, I only watched a selection of today's stage)

Answering my own question:

2.4.018 A rider, upon catching up with another shall leave a lateral gap of at least 2 metres
between himself and the other rider.

2.12.007 ss9.3.1 Slipstreaming (individual time trial) Rider: CHF 200 fine per infringement and
time penalty in accordance with the table in article 2.12.007 ter

That table is surprisingly lax in the penalties suggested: 200 metres at 50 km/h would incur a 5 second penalty.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Always tough to compare, but it looks like the top riders performed a lot better today than stage 1 of the Giro, which I believe was similar but shorter. Ganna and Remco slightly faster average speed, Roglic significantly faster (~2km/hr).

 

[Extinction]

Always tough to compare, but it looks like the top riders performed a lot better today than stage 1 of the Giro, which I believe was similar but shorter. Ganna and Remco slightly faster average speed, Roglic significantly faster (~2km/hr).

That's likely because Roglic was planning to peak in the third week of the Giro, but still Remco had better legs in that opening TT compared to those of yesterday.

 

[Berniece]

That's likely because Roglic was planning to peak in the third week of the Giro, but still Remco had better legs in that opening TT compared to those of yesterday.

Remco was also better prepared for the Giro than the Vuelta

 

[Extinction]

Remco was also better prepared for the Giro than the Vuelta

Aparently, although Covid was a hindrance to seeing just how he would have been in the mountains and particularly those of the third week, culminating with the Lusari MTT, in which, it's fair to say, Roglic excelled. At any rate, Roglic should have had no better or worse conditions to prepare for this Vuelta. For both it's a second big peak, for both it's a second big goal after the Giro and both had the same period after the Corsa Rosa to get prepared. Remco is still quite young, with arguably his best years ahead of him. By contrast, Roglic, seemingly unaffected by age, is still in the peak of his career. I see this as the major point of leverage in favor of the Roglic tipping stone presently. Although it's not a given by any means, but objectively the more likely scenario for this Vuelta yes.

PS: For those Roglic fans who got all bent out of shape because I had the temerity to assert a recent victory of his lacked panache; you haven't grasped the full range of my assessment of his worth (which, as you can plainly see here, I rate superior to Remco right now until demonstrated otherwise).

 

[Berniece]

Aparently, although Covid was a hindrance to seeing just how he would have been in the mountains and particularly those of the third week, culminating with the Lusari MTT, in which, it's fair to say, Roglic excelled. At any rate, Roglic should have had no better or worse conditions to prepare for this Vuelta. For both it's a second big peak, for both it's a second big goal after the Giro and both had the same period after the Corsa Rosa to get prepared. Remco is still quite young, with arguably his best years ahead of him. By contrast, Roglic, seemingly unaffected by age, is still in the peak of his career. I see this as the major point of leverage in favor of the Roglic tipping stone presently. Although it's not a given by any means, but objectively the more likely scenario for this Vuelta yes.

PS: For those Roglic fans who got all bent out of shape because I had the temerity to assert a recent victory of his lacked panache; you haven't grasped the full range of my assessment of his worth (which, as you can plainly see here, I rate superior to Remco right now until demonstrated otherwise).

I mean because Remco also focused on the WC ITT which needed a completely different type of preparation

 

[Extinction]

Remco was also better prepared for the Giro than the Vuelta

Good point, which I forgot about and agree with. In fact, he may pay for that choice in the mountains to come.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Funny boy: I'm glad you stopped posting out of spite or trauma for being constantly banned.

This is from the CN live ticker:

As it happened: Kuss defends Vuelta a España lead as Evenepoel gains time

25.8km TT shakes up the GC, as Roglic and Almeida impress but Vingegaard and Ayuso lose time

www.cyclingnews.com

13:57:28
Interestingly, the wind is expected to ba tail wind on the ride back to Valladolid.
That could be a factor and an advantage for very aero riders like Evenepoel.

FWIW, it's sorta the reverse at least talking about the top challengers yesterday.

With a tailwind rolling resistance becomes a slightly larger portion of overall drag compared to neutral wind or a headwind. It actually benefits lighter riders and f.e. someone like Remco doesn't need to be able to put a w/CdA on the level of Ganna in general and in a tailwind because of the rolling resistance difference from the ~20KG difference in weight between them.

You were right about it benefitting Remco though.

 

[Red Rick]

FWIW, it's sorta the reverse at least talking about the top challengers yesterday.

With a tailwind rolling resistance becomes a slightly larger portion of overall drag compared to neutral wind or a headwind. It actually benefits lighter riders and f.e. someone like Remco doesn't need to be able to put a w/CdA on the level of Ganna in general and in a tailwind because of the rolling resistance difference from the ~20KG difference in weight between them.

You were right about it benefitting Remco though.

Bigger difference was mainly just cornering though.

 

[CHGJ2000]

Bigger difference was mainly just cornering though.

It wasn't. Both uploaded to strava and you can compare on a segment of the TT (it doesn't include first or final 400-500m, actual course length ~25.5). Ganna put 3s into Remco through a section of two consecutive right handers, but that was the only big gain for him,

Ganna put 22s into Remco between 8KM and 18KM, which contained 3 corners, none of which appeared to result in a change in the delta between them. Remco put 5s into Ganna on the climb but apart from that and being marginally faster (2.6s over 6KM) in the final tailwind section, Ganna was just substantially faster than Remco in every other flat section of the TT.

Vuelta Time Trial | Strava Ride Segment in Valladolid, Castile and León, Spain

www.strava.com