Vuelta Stage 14: Écija - Sierra de la Pandera (175 km)

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Re: Re:

bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
portugal11 said:
Contador is the most agressive cyclist in the world and theres are people calling him wheelsucker
Exactly!

People can call Bert what they like but wheelsucker he certainly ain't!
Well he definitely was today.
Do you seriously think that he could have worked with Nibs today but chose to wheelsuck instead?

He was clearly on the limit and if he could have worked with Nibs he would have done.
 
Most of the discussion about today's stage is not taking into account TOMORROW.

Sure, some of us would like it to be a longer stage, but still, it is pretty unique and nothing like these previous stages. Some riders were riding today thinking about tomorrow. I don't have any idea which riders will be affected the most, but consider that:
-the first Cat 1 climb is not that long but has "after the interlude there's a kilometer of about 15% average, with ramps of 19 and 22%, then another pause, and five more kilometers averaging something like 12%."
-then after the descent they will essentially have 28 Ks (!) of climbing (with a short break in between) rising up to 2500 meters
-roughly the final 5 K are above 2000 m.!

Maybe they will all ride conservative because they are beat tired, but what happened today will not tell you what will happen tomorrow.
 
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
Very much agreed. Should be taken with a pinch of salt as he's being given leeway and all the others are in their second GT of the season, but there's no denying that at the very least, he's already capable of mixing it up with the big boys.
 
Seeing Zakarin so far down in the run up to the climb and really for much of the first half of the climb itself, I thought he'd blow up and lose a good chunk, but I think he was playing it smart even though Katusha didn't really gain much from the work on the cat 2 penultimate climb.

We'll see what tomorrow brings, but I like his chances for the podium and even a stage win, but that will not be easy because Nibali will now go at Froome any chance he gets.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
I didn't really pay attention, how did he lose time in the first week?
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
I didn't really pay attention, how did he lose time in the first week?
He had a bad day in the beginning I think. And then he had to wait for Aru once as well.
 
Re: Re:

Orbit501 said:
bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
portugal11 said:
Contador is the most agressive cyclist in the world and theres are people calling him wheelsucker
Exactly!

People can call Bert what they like but wheelsucker he certainly ain't!
Well he definitely was today.
Do you seriously think that he could have worked with Nibs today but chose to wheelsuck instead?

He was clearly on the limit and if he could have worked with Nibs he would have done.
Well, I seriously think that he could've worked!

He went after Chaves, and took no turns
He went after Nibali couple of times, and took no turns
He went after Lopez
He went after Kelderman
He went after Zakarin

So he clearly was not on the limit, and yes he could've worked, but choose not to.Really strange ride from him today, not in his manner. If it was someone else doing what he did today, more than half of this forum would scream wheelsucker, coward, etc.
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
I didn't really pay attention, how did he lose time in the first week?
I think he lost a minute or so on several different stages. The first one in Andorra I think he just dropped, probably a bit undercooked. The others, I think he may have been working a bit for Aru as well, or maybe just was riding himself into form.

Or it could be that the short climbs in the first week just aren't that good for him - a bit like Quintana isnt at his best there - and he only really shines on the high mountains.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Hugo Koblet said:
DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
I didn't really pay attention, how did he lose time in the first week?
I think he lost a minute or so on several different stages. The first one in Andorra I think he just dropped, probably a bit undercooked. The others, I think he may have been working a bit for Aru as well, or maybe just was riding himself into form.

Or it could be that the short climbs in the first week just aren't that good for him - a bit like Quintana isnt at his best there - and he only really shines on the high mountains.
+a 20 seconds time penalty on stage 10 for drafting/hanging on the car or something like that
 
Re: Re:

Orbit501 said:
bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
portugal11 said:
Contador is the most agressive cyclist in the world and theres are people calling him wheelsucker
Exactly!

People can call Bert what they like but wheelsucker he certainly ain't!
Well he definitely was today.
Do you seriously think that he could have worked with Nibs today but chose to wheelsuck instead?

He was clearly on the limit and if he could have worked with Nibs he would have done.
Yes. He closed multiple attacks after that.
 
Re: Re:

Orbit501 said:
bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
portugal11 said:
Contador is the most agressive cyclist in the world and theres are people calling him wheelsucker
Exactly!

People can call Bert what they like but wheelsucker he certainly ain't!
Well he definitely was today.
Do you seriously think that he could have worked with Nibs today but chose to wheelsuck instead?

He was clearly on the limit and if he could have worked with Nibs he would have done.
In this forum they don't excuse anybody for wheelsucking. Why should Contador be the exception?
The argument that it has been used in the past for many riders is that he could follow the attacks but failed to cooperate.
Now, don't kill the messenger because I don't care whether he did or not.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
Lopez has looked like 2013 Quintana this Vuelta. I think it's a big step up for him from his previous best performances in stage races. He's outclimbing the best at the moment and, perhaps more notably, is getting better throughout the race relative to the others. Really confirming his GT potential. If Astana can get him to stay on his bike, it looks like they have backed the right horse in letting Aru go.
But what about Aru's performance in the Tour after a season effected by injury? Surely Aru has a better chance of winning a GT net year.
 
Yeah I still believe in Aru. If he didn't get ill in the Tour he would have probably finished podium. If he had the team Lopez has here than certainly even.
And back to back GT's aren't easy. Aru is the only one still standing besides Froome from the Tour-Vuelta doublers in terms of GC.

Lopez is a great prospect, but not more than that. Aru is a GT winner
 
Feb 17, 2017
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Re: Re:

bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
bambino said:
Orbit501 said:
portugal11 said:
Contador is the most agressive cyclist in the world and theres are people calling him wheelsucker
Exactly!

People can call Bert what they like but wheelsucker he certainly ain't!
Well he definitely was today.
Do you seriously think that he could have worked with Nibs today but chose to wheelsuck instead?

He was clearly on the limit and if he could have worked with Nibs he would have done.
Yes. He closed multiple attacks after that.
I agree, it was a strange tactic. Even the commentators remarked on how strong he must be to close all the attacks, yet he never attacked himself.
 
Feb 17, 2017
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Yeah I still believe in Aru. If he didn't get ill in the Tour he would have probably finished podium. If he had the team Lopez has here than certainly even.
And back to back GT's aren't easy. Aru is the only one still standing besides Froome from the Tour-Vuelta doublers in terms of GC.

Lopez is a great prospect, but not more than that. Aru is a GT winner
Bertie still there and will likely finish ahead of him.
 
Re: Re:

Climber123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Yeah I still believe in Aru. If he didn't get ill in the Tour he would have probably finished podium. If he had the team Lopez has here than certainly even.
And back to back GT's aren't easy. Aru is the only one still standing besides Froome from the Tour-Vuelta doublers in terms of GC.

Lopez is a great prospect, but not more than that. Aru is a GT winner
Bertie still there and will likely finish ahead of him.
Of course. Aru is going to work for Lopez after tomorrow stage. And Lopez is my favorite for third step of the podium atm.
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Yeah I still believe in Aru. If he didn't get ill in the Tour he would have probably finished podium. If he had the team Lopez has here than certainly even.
And back to back GT's aren't easy. Aru is the only one still standing besides Froome from the Tour-Vuelta doublers in terms of GC.

Lopez is a great prospect, but not more than that. Aru is a GT winner
And after stage 12 it was clear that Aru was the only one with even a slight chance of beating Froome. Could have been a great Tour if Aru hadn't cracked massively in the second half.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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Re:

movingtarget said:
Froome is a bit banged up and is riding a sensible race. Could not have gone much better for him today.
Exactly. All the other guys in the top 5 + Contador and Lopez tried to get away from him today. However, Poels is in his normal second half of GT form and Froome was strong enough to close the gap to Bertie and Nibbles. Contador then closed down Keldermercx and Froome's Clone and Froome didn't have to respond to Lopez. It all looks good (or bad, depending on your point of view) for Froome to have the strength to defend his lead tomorrow and in the TT he will definitely have the advantage.

Congratulations to Majka. Lopez was very strong today, but as someone stated the timing of his attack (a counter-attack on a flatter section) made it look more impressive than it really was.

At least the GC guys had a go and you can't ask for more than that. Tomorrow is a better chance for heroics (short, very hard stage with a rest day to come). It's clearly crucial. With no real climb at the start tomorrow, I think there will be a very long battle before a break succeeds and it may well change 180degs on the first climb.
 
Aug 20, 2017
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First of all, Rafał, it was amazing victory! I've apologized to you already in your own thread!

Besides, it was really entertaining and funny stage!
The same with this thread.

As somebody said, 4 teams had killed themselves - yes, and they didn't gain anything.
It was also said Froome had been cooked - he was obviously not.
Someone was smelling froome's blood, other - the blood of a kenyan - but all of you forgot that Froome as a pure Skyborg had an artificial blood, so no chances to smell it.
Another guy was loved to see Aru destroying the skyborgs....., and so on, and so on.......
And all the amazing discussion about Contador: he was on the limit - no, he wheelsucked - absolutely not, Contador can't wheelsuck, he is a hero. I really don't care, what is important he lost a few seconds.
 

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