Was Bert pushed?

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Mar 26, 2010
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What I thought more interesting is how long it took for his teammates to stop and help him back to the peloton. They had to have known that he went down right when it happened. Why didn't at least a few immediately stop to help? And he was down for a while and then had to stop quickly after he got back on his bike for a change, and he didn't get any help from teammates until he was nearly back in the peloton himself.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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taiwan said:
More detail is added from the posters imagination, not from anyone who was there.
Imagination? Perhaps...

Or the most likely turn of events: riding tight, bit of bumping, hood gets caught under saddle, try to free it, lean against it, comes free, you go hard left into the ditch (also results in the other rider getting jerked to the left a la Karpets).

What other part of the bar is going to get in the mix with someones saddle? It's not like he hooked his drop around the guy's seat post...

Picky, picky...
 
Aug 18, 2009
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T_S_A_R said:
i doubt bertie is very popular in the peloton just now.

if he wins then is stripped it will be a disaster for the sport and the end result will be less sponsorship which threatens riders' livelihoods.

it's the other side of the omerta coin. don't say anything but don't stupidly damage the sport, that's why all the riders hate ricco.
That was basically my theory, that he's being sort of frozen out of the peloton because his presence is considered a threat to riders' livelihoods. No punches were pulled for Ricco when he was riding verbally, I don't know if there were any physical incidents though.
 
alanshearer said:
What I thought more interesting is how long it took for his teammates to stop and help him back to the peloton. They had to have known that he went down right when it happened. Why didn't at least a few immediately stop to help? And he was down for a while and then had to stop quickly after he got back on his bike for a change, and he didn't get any help from teammates until he was nearly back in the peloton himself.
There was probably said over the radio that it wasn't necessary because he would be back between the cars quite fast. When it took him a little longer they waited for him.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Imagination? Perhaps...

Or the most likely turn of events: riding tight, bit of bumping, hood gets caught under saddle, try to free it, lean against it, comes free, you go hard left into the ditch (also results in the other rider getting jerked to the left a la Karpets).

What other part of the bar is going to get in the mix with someones saddle? It's not like he hooked his drop around the guy's seat post...

Picky, picky...
What about the height issue though? Here's a picture of Karpets' bike. Here's Bert's bike. If the drop of the bars is similar on the two bikes, Bert's bar tops look like they'd be under Karpets' drops, and at about the level of the seat collar --> hoods and saddle wouldn't come into contact. It would have to be hoods and seatpost at best, but that isn't quite what was said.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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taiwan said:
What about the height issue though? Here's a picture of Karpets' bike. Here's Bert's bike. If the drop of the bars is similar on the two bikes, Bert's bar tops look like they'd be under Karpets' drops, and at about the level of the seat collar --> hoods and saddle wouldn't come into contact. It would have to be hoods and seatpost at best, but that isn't quite what was said.
Fair enough... Whatever happened, he wasn't pushed. It sure looked like a tangled rider pulling free, and since that's what they both ended up saying, I'm sure that's what happened. Not a peep from the peloton, which lends credence to the tangle theory.

Unless the Eastern Bloc mobsters had 'Vlad the Enforcer' teach Bert a lesson...
 
May 31, 2011
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Fair enough... Whatever happened, he wasn't pushed. It sure looked like a tangled rider pulling free, and since that's what they both ended up saying, I'm sure that's what happened. Not a peep from the peloton, which lends credence to the tangle theory.
because the peloton are well known for being honest and open.

also contador is hardly likely to say "yeah they all hate me because i'm making a mockery of the 2011 season and putting their jobs at risk".
 
T_S_A_R said:
because the peloton are well known for being honest and open.
Yes, the peloton is often honest and open about people being reckless and causing crashes.

You can't just say "they lie about doping, so their opinions about everything can be safely disregarded". That's not how it works. The story is the same as told by both sides, no insider has contradicted it, and it fits with what we saw in the video. Everything else is conspiranoia, and conspiranoia is evil.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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T_S_A_R said:
because the peloton are well known for being honest and open.

also contador is hardly likely to say "yeah they all hate me because i'm making a mockery of the 2011 season and putting their jobs at risk".
You're telling me that the reigning winner was dumped in plain view of at least 20 other narcissistic, head-injured liars (all with twitter accounts); and no one made anything of it?

This smells a lot more like another ex-winner who was under the microscope, and ended up riding nervously, frustrated and sketchy in the early stages of Le Tour...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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hrotha said:
Yes, the peloton is often honest and open about people being reckless and causing crashes.

You can't just say "they lie about doping, so their opinions about everything can be safely disregarded". That's not how it works. The story is the same as told by both sides, no insider has contradicted it, and it fits with what we saw in the video. Everything else is conspiranoia, and conspiranoia is evil.
I beg to differ. I think it's ironically entertaining...
 
May 3, 2010
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If you look at the footage there is a second push from a different direction. Apparently there was a Cuban rider seen on a nearby grassy knoll who was responsible.

I sense a Discovery channel special 'Who really pushed Dertie?'
 
May 31, 2011
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JMBeaushrimp said:
You're telling me that the reigning winner was dumped in plain view of at least 20 other narcissistic, head-injured liars (all with twitter accounts); and no one made anything of it?

This smells a lot more like another ex-winner who was under the microscope, and ended up riding nervously, frustrated and sketchy in the early stages of Le Tour...
as i said before it's the other side of omerta.

they won't talk about doping because it'll cost them money. but on the other hand if you cross a line like ricco in the recent past which is what contador is doing by racng they'll turn on you, again, because it potentially costs them money.

contador winning = bad publicity = less sponsorship = lower wages and less spots for riders

do you think the rank file will be happy seeing a millionaire put their livelihoods at risk?
 
Brake lever caught in saddle !

Hilarious. Just try it. Karpets **** (ok back-side) was on the saddle. He looked left. Pulled his head back to the right and then moved his head quickly to the left. Bertie did something to wind him up, either then or sometime before. Something Bertie does not want to make public.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Strange though - I was involved in exactly this situation in a race back in around 1996. I was moving up the line passing people and a guy to my left moved right. His leg went up fine but when he pushed down on his pedal, his right hamstring hooked itself on my left lever so hard it lifted his rear wheel off the ground for a moment.

As he came down I pulled right and popped out from under him. The only difference in the story is that I am not a lightweight and have good handling skills - so I stayed upright.

Oh and also I am not a famous rider so nobody felt the need to push the idea that there was a conspiracy in place.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Freddythefrog said:
Hilarious. Just try it. Karpets **** (ok back-side) was on the saddle. He looked left. Pulled his head back to the right and then moved his head quickly to the left. Bertie did something to wind him up, either then or sometime before. Something Bertie does not want to make public.
+1. I watched it about a dozen times last night and Bertie who was on the extreme left veers slightly to the right then gets clobbered by a rider who leans to his left.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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biker jk said:
+1. I watched it about a dozen times last night and Bertie who was on the extreme left veers slightly to the right then gets clobbered by a rider who leans to his left.
I think it's clear that Karpets applied some force in order to make AC crash.
 
I watched this again tonight in excruciating repetition that the Versus broadcast supplies. There is no question that both riders are jarred before the big move left of Karpets, and his move left is a result of being hooked momentarily to AC, then it releases and AC goes flying.

Immediately his teammate grabs his shirt to trigger the radio and let the team car know. Still I find it curious the lack of support.

But there is no question it was an accident, and at first I definitely thought it was intentional. It was not.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I think most of the contributors in this thread need to be dope tested. It's either acid, mushrooms or some other hallucinogen.

Or good old fashioned challenged IQs?

Accident plain& simple. No conspiracy or malice.
 
May 26, 2009
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Imagine that..

Ac: *Touches wrist* (could even be the Saxo in front), *swerves a bit*, *Hooks into bike*,* gets disentangled due to both riders pushing*
VK: *Feels pain in wrist*, *Looks aside*, *Feels someone meddling with his bike*, *shakes the guy of* *Swerves due to the disentanglement*

AC goes flying: two sides of the same story, still an accident.

And on the head ****... for real:

1. Nobody in the peloton mentions it, everyone accepts it :rolleyes:
2. From the video it's unclear if VK even hits AC with the headbutt. To many it looks like swerving when something gets untangled.

And #1 is the real clincher. AC surely screwed up, but it's not an assasination attempt by VK :rolleyes: Everything indicates it was a simple bike handling error by AC that caused this. It actually fits right in with an annoyed VK.

For the "it can't be his saddle" crowd:

FFS.. did AC have time to consider what exactly happened except that suddenly he was stuck? It's extremely likely he wasn't paying attention in the first place. So if he gets stuck on the rear brake cable it's mighty close to the saddle(-stem). It's not an extreme stretch to say "I got stuck with my hoods at his saddle".

For the "why didn't they all stop"

Noticed how little help people waiting are if you immediately get up? As long as you are within the cars waiting is pointless. I have seen quite a few times people waiting actually doing absolutely nothing but expend energy while desperately trying to overtake the victim who speeds buy at 60 behind the bumper of the DS. Keeping your domestiques fresh might be a better idea....
 
May 18, 2011
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Wow, just found this thread, its hilarious.

Sure, when the video came up during the race I thought it looked like Karpets hitting Bertie, but still I felt we would here more about it after the stage.
And then came the perfectly normal acceptable explanation from the riders themselves. Well, that seemed time to trow out the theory of intentional pushing. But some people here saw a opportunity for some drama in the pack, and will not let something stupid like logic get in their way. They want drama and drama they will have. Of anything the denial makes it more exciting, cause this means there really is something to hide!
 
May 18, 2011
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Franklin said:
For the "why didn't they all stop"

Noticed how little help people waiting are if you immediately get up? As long as you are within the cars waiting is pointless. I have seen quite a few times people waiting actually doing absolutely nothing but expend energy while desperately trying to overtake the victim who speeds buy at 60 behind the bumper of the DS. Keeping your domestiques fresh might be a better idea....
Yeah I noticed that too, seen a lot of riders hiding behind a car to get back, domestiques noticing them too late and just drop straight back, never to be seen again. That doesnt really help a lot I imagine.
 
May 31, 2011
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he's got no luck at all has poor bertie.

just like last year when contaminated meat ended up on his plate on the exact day it would raise most suspcisions. how unlucky is that?

now when he is being booed all over france a video appears where flies out of the peloton at a right angle while the guy next to him who has a reputation as a tough guy leans into him but it was just an accident...
 
May 18, 2011
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So your logic is that he doped last year, which makes it perfectly clear that sunday he was pushed of his bike? Yeah, makes sense...
 

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