Wellen's condition "not caused by doping..."

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Cloxxki

Mar 19, 2009
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Very forthcoming of the Belgian police to give him a few weeks notice.
I am not so sure I'd rate Belgian police as high as the Spanish. Hope to be positively surprised, of course.

You'd need to be monumentally stupid, dethroning Ricco by severals levels of magnitude, to be Wellens, get such press and not clean your house first thing. Or better, let a trustee do it for you. Arrive to the house with flowers, leave with Bart's own suitcase of comfortable clothes for the hospital, and dispose of the additional contents on the way there.
 
Captain_Cavman

Captain_Cavman

Nov 30, 2010
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Cloxxki said:
Very forthcoming of the Belgian police to give him a few weeks notice.
I am not so sure I'd rate Belgian police as high as the Spanish. Hope to be positively surprised, of course.

You'd need to be monumentally stupid, dethroning Ricco by severals levels of magnitude, to be Wellens, get such press and not clean your house first thing. Or better, let a trustee do it for you. Arrive to the house with flowers, leave with Bart's own suitcase of comfortable clothes for the hospital, and dispose of the additional contents on the way there.
Click to expand...

Millar didn't.
 
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Cloxxki

Mar 19, 2009
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Captain_Cavman said:
Millar didn't.
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Well, I thought we all agreed on his mental state :)

Those were other times of course. We're now growing out of the era where you keep your laptop stuffed with evidence. Or use bank accounts for fraudulent acitivities.
 
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Cloxxki

Mar 19, 2009
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craig1985 said:
But Millar wanted to get caught ;)

I don't know a lot about Cyclo-Cross, how rampant is doping in Cross compared to road cycling?
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I never outgrew regional (Dutch) level of road cycling (and could care less), but took part in some Superprestige and Gazet van Antwerpen crosses. I know what my body is worth, and what my fitness level was. A proficient MTB'er, strong off the line, and uphill despite always having 5-10kg on anyone. I had no place at the cross podium in any shape, but the way those guys ride away from you...just insane.
60kph from standing start on very low pressure tubs and upright riding position. You have to be there to understand what that means. And I was doing it happpily in the pack, let alone doing it on the front.
Agressive riding for an hour with very limited recovery. It was insane.
Especially interesting were the seconds and sometimes minutes between the moment you got lapped and when you got taken out of the race on the finish straight. Yeah, technically they are masters. Yet I was able top copy their moved, going with their flow. But 1-2 minutes are a loooong time for that kind of intensity.
I honestly cannot imagine them not being doped. Perhaps a rare single ultra talent. I wouldn't know to name one to be honest.

I would say that the level in cross might in fact be above that of MTB'ing. I've ridden with a reigning Olympic champ in flat MTB races, and that was not necessarily more impressive. It seemed more doable than what I saw in cross from the likes of Vervecken, Nys, Wellens, etc.
I would more likly trust those who were a class of their own as youngster, without overly supportive parents. Lars Boom is obviously special, although the Rabo link doesn't help his credibility. Marianne Vos was beating national MTB champs on a regular basis when she just got into highschool, she's a natural on her own level. You cannot dope to such results, it just doesn't happen, or you kill yourself doing it.
 
mewmewmew13

mewmewmew13

Aug 9, 2010
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Moose McKnuckles said:
Not all the dopers speak Spanish. I think the only Spanish word Armstrong knows is "cerveza".
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LOL!
morning laugh...

hate to say it but the first thing that worried me about his heart complications was what was in the back of my mind....
hope he's ok
 
L'arriviste

L'arriviste

Feb 23, 2010
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Cloxxki said:
I never outgrew regional (Dutch) level of road cycling (and could care less), but took part in some Superprestige and Gazet van Antwerpen crosses. I know what my body is worth, and what my fitness level was. A proficient MTB'er, strong off the line, and uphill despite always having 5-10kg on anyone. I had no place at the cross podium in any shape, but the way those guys ride away from you...just insane.
60kph from standing start on very low pressure tubs and upright riding position. You have to be there to understand what that means. And I was doing it happpily in the pack, let alone doing it on the front.
Agressive riding for an hour with very limited recovery. It was insane.
Especially interesting were the seconds and sometimes minutes between the moment you got lapped and when you got taken out of the race on the finish straight. Yeah, technically they are masters. Yet I was able top copy their moved, going with their flow. But 1-2 minutes are a loooong time for that kind of intensity.
I honestly cannot imagine them not being doped. Perhaps a rare single ultra talent. I wouldn't know to name one to be honest.

I would say that the level in cross might in fact be above that of MTB'ing. I've ridden with a reigning Olympic champ in flat MTB races, and that was not necessarily more impressive. It seemed more doable than what I saw in cross from the likes of Vervecken, Nys, Wellens, etc.
I would more likly trust those who were a class of their own as youngster, without overly supportive parents. Lars Boom is obviously special, although the Rabo link doesn't help his credibility. Marianne Vos was beating national MTB champs on a regular basis when she just got into highschool, she's a natural on her own level. You cannot dope to such results, it just doesn't happen, or you kill yourself doing it.
Click to expand...

Nice to read about your experiences, Cloxxki. Re Craig's question: there was a purple patch in doping stories that mirrors a similar period on the road around the last part of the 90s and the early noughties.

I haven't researched it in detail because my work has been focused on the road scene but I did read a fair bit about all the missed tests and positives. In the even smaller world that 'cross is, it seems almost risible now.

Mario De Clercq - Pauwels' team manager today - was a very murky figure but you could also count Daniele Pontoni, Ben Berden, Wellens himself and plenty of others in there. :)
 
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Cloxxki

Mar 19, 2009
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Just to add that the mentioned Olympic MTB champ, and former national junior XC champ, actually was without a chance at the cross elite nationals, even when he's a true power rider, and it was all about muddy grass. Minutes behind the top crossers. I found that odd. He could follow the lead group at nation road champs on a selective hilly course just fine. In that same cross nationals, I did sortof well, appeared to be quicker on the main downhills than the leaders after they'd lapped me (sandy downhill, I was fat in comparison). I wasn't challenged technically very much, but I was just blown by as if I were standing still. The Olympic champ's pace seemed much more human when he lapped me. And that's a guy who had a very, very controversial coach (former PDM rider) around that time.

You never hear crossers about their SRM output. But sometimes road side displays show that the solo leader is pedaling 40kph on the flat road, on a very muddy cross bike. And that's actually his recovery time...

Let's seee who manage to mix it up with the predominantly Belgian elite cross men consistently. Czechs, a Dutchman if he shows up, and oddly, a couple of Frenchmen who double as road pro. The latter group could in fact be a clean argument, as on the road they are so-so, and in their offseason they are really good. Dope in the winter, make money in the summer? Seems a stretch.

I'm not sure what to think of it. Crossers are their own breed, a small, closed community. They do huge amounts of endurance training, before breakfast even, and get away with it.
 
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filipo

Sep 9, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Koksijde is a very unique race course relative to the rest of the world. According to Steve Tilford, in Belgium it is common. The course stacked the deck quite a bit.


It's impossible NOT to look at it like the 90's all over again. And it might be. That claim is not new. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dutch-doctor-accuses-belgians-of-doping
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Interesting article; I had forgotten it. I wonder what became of the threatened lawsuit?
 
classicomano

classicomano

BANNED
May 5, 2011
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Some more points of interest: Luc van den Broeck the supposed mastermind behind all this also mentions Nick Nuyens, Jelle Vanendert and J-Rod as his clients and accuses Vanendert en Nuyens of owing him lots of money for their victories in Flanders and Le Tour wich he credits to his "natural supplements".

I got a weird feeling about all this :rolleyes:
 
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