What about Contador's TDF wins in 2007 & 2009?

[boladelmundo]

If Contador already doped during Manolo Saiz is not a subject for me, it would all just be guessing, and not have any relevance to the facts.

It is really difficult to believe that Bertie is clean while all of his past teams have been reported to be associated with doping. ONCE, Liberty Seguros, Discovery and Astana are all or were dirty but he seems to be the only angel in the team. How can this be?

 

[hrotha]

Carlos Arriba's article is quite interesting. He said about Dr. Ferrari reckoned that the clen found in Bertie's system was "added" by the lab who tested Bertie's blood. It seemed that the lab recognized Bertie's blood from "his steroid" and they detected PVC traces in his blood. The lab knew Bertie's was having autologus transfusion but couldn't prove what he was on.

Be careful with Arribas's spin though. I think it was established that it would be impossible to spike the sample with such a minute amount of clen?

 

[airstream]

air, you calling me immature?

no, i'm calling an approach, according to which one can be surprised why other dislikes Contador because of doping — immature.

Stick to what you know for a fact, and not what you think.

Then Clinics should have been closed.

So you are denying Armstrong's gt talent in a way. To me, that could be explained pretty simply as well. Armstrong wasn't lucky to turn up in so streamlined doping system in such an young age as Contador did.

 

[Fidolix]

Carlos Arriba's article is quite interesting. He said about Dr. Ferrari reckoned that the clen found in Bertie's system was "added" by the lab who tested Bertie's blood. It seemed that the lab recognized Bertie's blood from "his steroid" and they detected PVC traces in his blood. The lab knew Bertie's was having autologus transfusion but couldn't prove what he was on.

I would not believe a word coming from Dr. Ferrari´s mouth, especially not regarding doping or dopers.

 

[jilbiker]

As I said in the Hamilton vs Eki question, i dont like people being stripped of tiltes which are then awarded to someone else, because they fell at a hurdle the other rider did not have to jump.

Its different if Contador fails the same test Andy Schleck took, and if Contador's ds talks whereas Andy's or Evans's ds doesn't.

Especially since Andy was with frickin riis. Though the irony that Andy would win a title because Contadors current ds doesn't speak out, would be quite heavy.

Right Hitch. We all know Andy ain't been clean since whenever. I think they should STOP all this giving it to the next person. Who is clean? Scarponi, Nibali? if they want to open the can then it will be a serious mess. I think thats why the peloton is saying hey, lets move on. Wrong peloton, the public has had enough of these baked results and entertainment.

But I still question why people are so hard on cycling. i think the drug use in Athletics today surpasses what the East Germans did in the 80's. Why are we not crying wolf about 9.59?? I am not saying doping is good, its bad yes, but i am also put off by the swimming, Athletics etc. Its all FAKE!

 

[Cookster15]

You obviously believes Contador have always doped his entire career, only problem is, he were already a major talent as a kid and showed his potential in an early age, something neither Armstrong or Horner ever was, not as a potential GC rider atleast.

No, I'm not arguing about Contador's talent (btw Evans had just a good a pedigree as AC) but with those who infer all riders were doping the same in 2007-2009. Per the examples I provided there were clearly riders or teams on superior programs headed by USPS/Discovery/Astana 2009. Contador was on a team who obviously had a superior program - ask USADA. You are free to believe Bruneel didn't share the top level program with AC at Discovery or Astana but I do not.

 

[Fidolix]

It is really difficult to believe that Bertie is clean while all of his past teams have been reported to be associated with doping. ONCE, Liberty Seguros, Discovery and Astana are all or were dirty but he seems to be the only angel in the team. How can this be?

What I believe has nothing to do with the facts, he´s never been proved positive for any substance in the period therefor I can´t and won´t make a statement that he was doped, what I think is an entirely different matter, I just don´t go around throwing around with lame accusations when I can´t prove them.

So really no need to try and indicate that I´m a fanboy, you know, assumptions are the mother of all fu ck ups.

 

[Fidolix]

No, I'm not arguing about Contador's talent (btw Evans had just a good a pedigree as AC) but with those who infer all riders were doping the same in 2007-2009. Per the examples I provided there were clearly riders or teams on superior programs headed by USPS/Discovery/Astana 2009. Contador was on a team who obviously had a superior program - ask USADA. You are free to believe Bruneel didn't share the top level program with AC at Discovery or Astana but I do not.

See my previous post. I clearly say AC knew exactly what was going on, and most likely was part of the program.
But I have no evidence to back it up, therefor I just think it´s wrong to make it a fact.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

imo, for the first time in his life contador must act like a man and tell the truth himself.

You're extremely boring, even for a troll.

Though I agree that Contador's legacy is very much tainted, the fact that you're pointing fingers while having AS as your avatar is just silly.

I agree with Berzin here. Contador is a doper and a talent. Wiggo is just a well-protected boring doper, it appears.

 

[Fidolix]

no, i'm calling an approach, according to which one can be surprised why other dislikes Contador because of doping — immature.


Then Clinics should have been closed.

So you are denying Armstrong's gt talent in a way. To me, that could be explained pretty simply as well. Armstrong wasn't lucky to turn up in so streamlined doping system in such an young age as Contador did.

Really?

Then it´s funny so many claims he already doped from day one, before he even started cycling. And that it is probably the reason for his cancer.

 

[luckyboy]

I would not believe a word coming from Dr. Ferrari´s mouth, especially not regarding doping or dopers.

Dr Ferrari didn't "reckon" that the sample was spiked, he speculated about it.

I would think the possibility of spiking it with that tiny an amount of clenbuterol of all things would be minute anyway.

 

[airstream]

You're extremely boring, even for a troll.

Though I agree that Contador's legacy is very much tainted, the fact that you're pointing fingers while having AS as your avatar is just silly.

I agree with Berzin here. Contador is a doper and a talent. Wiggo is just a well-protected boring doper, it appears.

While calling me a troll, you openly expressed dislike towards other riders. To put it mildly, that's not very logical. They are both well protected dopers with a talent. Boredom has a little to do with talent.

Really?
Then it&#180]
Everyone dopes differently. US Postal hit Edgar at Tour de Swiss 96 or 97 too, but it didn't help them climb properly by and large. Contador as a rider was conceived in ONCE, one of the most sophisticated doping systems all over the world. In addition, it's just Spain, a country where guys like Pepe Marti know how to hide, smuggle and cover up like anywhere else. So Contador has an obvious edge. Moreover, talent and hard work is only part of success. Say, will to win and hellish egocentricity — which all great riders have — can not be evaluated unbiasedly, however, their role is fundamental. Armstrong was probably the best ever in this regard.