What constitutes cheating ???

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Herbstrong

BANNED
Mar 11, 2014
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ChewbaccaD said:
It's kinda' hard to considering the importance he has to your point...:rolleyes:
I wasn't trying to make a point simply asking a legit question which I will rephrase:

Where do procedures such as lasik eye surgery, tommy john surgery, and platelet-rich plasma (PRP) therapy come in to play? These are performance enhancing and not everyone can afford these procedures, therefore giving that athlete an unfair advantage over their competitors.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Herbstrong said:
Where do procedures such as lasik eye surgery, tommy john surgery, and platelet-rich plasma (PRP) therapy come in to play? These are performance enhancing and not everyone can afford these procedures, therefore giving that athlete an unfair advantage over their competitors.
Here's a short list of some MLB players who have had Tommy John surgery.
I'm just wondering if there's a list of those poor "competitors" who couldn't afford it?
-----------------------------

Those who could afford it:

Matt Moore

Cory Gearrin

Bobby Parnell

Erik Davis

David Hernandez

Peter Moylan

Bruce Rondon

Patrick Corbin

Jarrod Parker

Brandon Beachy

Kris Medlen

Luke Hochevar

Cory Luebke

Matt Harvey

Matt Reynolds

Rafael Betancourt

Jeremy Hefner

Jason Marquis

Jordan Norberto

Daniel Hudson

Kyuji Fujikawa

Scott Elbert

Eric O'Flaherty

Jonny Venters

Joel Hanrahan

Gavin Floyd

Jason Motte

Chad Billingsley

Alex White

Fernando Rodriguez

Frank Herrmann

Rafael Furcal

Randy Wolf

Juan Oviedo

Carl Crawford

Josh Tomlin

Drew Hutchison

Neftali Feliz

Joe Wieland

Eric Surkamp

Todd Coffey

Luis Perez

Daniel Hudson

Felipe Paulino

Brandon Beachy

Charlie Morton

Andrew Carignan

David Herndon

Kyle Drabek

Danny Duffy

Marcos Mateo

Jose Contreras

Blake Wood

Cory Luebke

George Sherrill

Mike Pelfrey

Joe Beimel

Jeremy Bonderman

Brian Wilson

Scott Baker

Michael Kohn

Ryan Madson

Joey Devine

Jose Ceda

Joakim Soria

Joel Zumaya

Sergio Escalona

Arodys Vizcaino

John Lackey

Carlos Carrasco

Juan Gutierrez

Tony Pena

Zack Cozart

Rubby De La Rosa

Brad Hawpe

David Aardsma

Carlos Monasterios

Brett Anderson

Joba Chamberlain

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Rich Hill

Jorge De La Rosa

Mason Tobin

Jenrry Mejia

Cla Meredith

Adam Wainwright

Jamie Moyer

Hector Ambriz

Manuel Corpas

John Baker

Stephen Strasburg

Shawn Kelley

Erick Threets

Kris Medlen

Ben Sheets

Kyle Blanks

Zach Miner

Chris Coste

Junichi Tazawa

Joe Nathan

Jose Arredondo

Clay Zavada

Jordan Zimmermann

Edinson Volquez

Tyler Yates

Mike Aviles

Neal Cotts

Xavier Nady

Josh Outman

Shawn Hill

Jason Isringhausen

Anthony Reyes

Jesse Litsch

Dan Giese

David Riske

Bill Bray

Scott Proctor

Alfredo Simon

Joey Devine

Ryan Feierabend

Oscar Villarreal

Pat Neshek

Shaun Marcum

Billy Wagner

Jaime Garcia

Mike Parisi

Tim Hudson

Sergio Mitre

Norris Hopper

Matt Chico

Vance Wilson

Jake Westbrook

Chris Capuano

Peter Moylan

Macay McBride

Andy Sisco

Mike Zagurski

Mark McLemore

Jason Isringhausen

Danys Baez

Russ Ortiz

Ambiorix Burgos

Willie Eyre

Chris Ray

Brendan Donnelly

Josh Johnson

Chris Carpenter

Anthony Lerew

Eric Milton

Vance Wilson

Carl Pavano

B.J. Ryan

Fernando Nieve

Chris Denorfia

Arthur Rhodes

Adam Bernero

Michael Gonzalez

Denny Stark

Bruce Chen

Francisco Liriano

Eddie Guardado

Brandon Backe

Logan Kensing

Carlos Martinez

Tyler Walker

Julio Santana

Shawn Estes

Kelly Johnson

Bartolome Fortunato

Victor Zambrano

Ricardo Rincon

Yhency Brazoban

Luis Ayala

Juan Padilla

Denny Stark

Brian Anderson

Al Reyes

Mike Hampton

Cesar Izturis

Jorge Campillo

Tim Spooneybarger

Erubiel Durazo

Brian Anderson

Mike Lincoln

Derek Thompson

Randy Wolf

Octavio Dotel

Ryan Bukvich

Grant Balfour

Carlos Almanzar

Frank Francisco

Francis Beltran

Rick VandenHurk

Ray Olmedo*

Scott Williamson

Jason Grimsley

Shawn Hill

Rafael Soriano

Luis Gonzalez

Jason Stanford

Mike Lincoln

Jason Shiell

Fernando Rodney

Jorge De Paula

Miguel Asencio

Chris Spurling

Mike Fetters

Billy Traber

Joe Mays

Tim Spooneybarger

Runelvys Hernandez

Ryan Dempster

Mark Wohlers

Denny Neagle

Seth McClung

Brian Moehler

Ricky Bones

A.J. Burnett

Matt Wise

Andy Ashby

Jayson Durocher

Bob Wickman

Doug Brocail

Jon Lieber

Jeff Zimmerman

Danny Patterson

Brian Tollberg

Jason Christiansen

John Franco

Pete Harnisch

Will Ohman

Jason Grilli

Ryan Vogelsong

Kevin Jarvis

Dave Eiland

Lance Painter

Adam Eaton

Pat Hentgen

Kevin Walker

Kris Benson

Doug Brocail

Matt Mantei

Rod Beck

Darren Dreifort

Garrett Stephenson

Dave Eiland

Scott Downs

Bill Simas

Scott Erickson

Scott Radinsky

Michael Tejera

Randy Williams

John Smoltz

Juan Pena

Scott Williamson

Orber Moreno

Rocky Coppinger

Sterling Hitchcock

Ken Cloude

Joe Roa

Dan Kolb

Tom Gordon

Matt Beech

Kerry Wood

Kerry Ligtenberg

Seth Greisinger

Matt Morris

Matt Beech

Billy Brewer

Jason Isringhausen

Rheal Cormier

Jason Bere

Pedro Bordon

Steve Ontiveros

Chad Fox

Steve Sparks

Bill Pulispher

Steve Karsay

Paul Wagner

Jose Rijo

Al Reyes

Darren Dreifort

Cal Eldred

Tim Worrell

Jose Canseco

Mike Bielecki

John Farrell

Steve Ontiveros

Matt Young

Jimmy Key

Ken Dayley

Steve Christmas

Paul Molitor

Brent Strom

and...


Tommy John
 
I guess a cyclist could surgically remove unnecessary stuff like the appendix or some ribs; eat a lot to maximize training gains then get liposuction right before competition, etc. These surgical means of performance enhancement are legal AFAIK but they're so amazingly morbid I don't think many would try them.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Herbstrong said:
is tommy john an accepted form of doping, PEDing, etc?
You're changing the goal posts...again.

Your original point was that...
Herbstrong said:
not everyone can afford these procedures
I've pointed out that to anyone who mattered (in terms of actual competitors) affordability was not a factor.



Btw, I liked Defcon5 better. :cool:
 
May 27, 2012
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Granville57 said:
You're changing the goal posts...again.

Your original point was that...

I've pointed out that to anyone who mattered (in terms of actual competitors) affordability was not a factor.



Btw, I liked Defcon5 better. :cool:
He thinks his smell doesn't carry, but it always does.
 
Herbstrong said:
is tommy john an accepted form of doping, PEDing, etc?
Seems to be the case. Pay attention to the rules of most games:

1. Win.
2. Not get caught breaking the rules.

In cycling/Track and Field language:
1. Win.
2. Never test positive.

As long as there's no rule against whatever exploit is fashioned, be it surgery or inhaling Xenon gas or whatever, it's not cheating.
 
Feb 3, 2015
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zigmeister said:
An example, why can you take albuterol or allergy medications that allow you to even get on the bike?
Albuterol (salbutamol) is about as safe as stuff gets. Its non-addictive and you cant build up any resistance to it. Severe asthmatics that are hospitalized will get some very high prolonged doses of the stuff. If you have some and you think you need it then use it.

I am not sure what the 6 liter capacity is. I just had the same test I think which they call a spirometry and the key test is expelling air in one second. I asked the Doc how I did and he said I had 85% of the capacity of the average for a man of my age. Anything below 80 is considered impaired. I would ask how you compared to other men you age.

After a hard ride or a race you had some real difficulty breathing or if you in fact had to quit the activity and go and sit down and struggle to get back where you started I would say you need to talk to your doctor. Usually when you go see the doc he has a nice little "asthma questionaire" that lets him know how bad your breathing is.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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proffate said:
I guess a cyclist could surgically remove unnecessary stuff like the appendix or some ribs; eat a lot to maximize training gains then get liposuction right before competition, etc. These surgical means of performance enhancement are legal AFAIK but they're so amazingly morbid I don't think many would try them.
that is called Aicar. All non-functional tissue is rendered on the individual taking the combination of Aicar, GW501516 and lipotropin.

when riders turn up as lean as Ryder, Nibali, Froome, and Wigans, one has to intuit what the heck is going on with their internal organs, it cant be healthy to lose so much weight visibly. I wonder a coroner would think when they open up the body cavity. This could also redefine the technical definition of vacuum. Wigans at 68kg?

good grief

sounds legit
 
May 26, 2010
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Francesca Reda's team manager has pulled the whole team out the Rás in protest. Reda posted some nasty things on twitter, but then deleted them, not before people got grabs though.
 
May 26, 2010
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Editor of Italian cycling web magazine Cicloweb_it thinks holding onto a car is not the same as doping! Cheating is cheating.

Alberto Vigonesi @AlbertoVigonesi · 4m 4 minutes ago
@Irl_Cyc_Results @sticky_bottle @SSbike @teamidea2010 No. But "to hold a vehicle" and "to dope" are slightly different things.
He doesn't like the mentioning of Reda's past misdemeanours in an article on Stickybottle......
 

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