What do you think of the Dr Maserati permaban?

[the sceptic]

While we are on the subject of bans and moderators etc, could one of the moderators tell me which part of the 4th post in this thread was deemed a worthy on topic contribution to the discussion.

the late vortex got mad at me for pointing it out, but I have never seen this guy make a post that wasnt trolling.

its too bad posters that contribute something to the forum get banned instead.

 

[darwin553]

"Secret Tribunals" is fairly dramatic and pejorative.

Secret tribunals of mods are a much better idea than a single mod arbitrarily making a decision especially if it is one which is considered to be unreasonable.

 

[King Boonen]

Secret tribunals of mods are a much better idea than a single mod arbitrarily making a decision especially if it is one which is considered to be unreasonable.

What if the decision of the whole cabal is seen as unreasonable?

 

[RownhamHill]

It reminds me of the fall of Saddam Hussian. Or in our case Armstrong. That was it. The giant had been slayed. Then what? The civil war began. The factions were created and those who we thought were on the same lines of thinking were not. We just all shared a common interest in Armstrong going down. Reality suggests where all just a mismatch of different people all posting the same board. Everyone is trying so hard to thrust forward their one specific point they lose sight that the mods have to protect a 20,000ft view of the situation. Not just one battle.

I think this is pretty much on the money with this - not sure if I ever posted it (don't think I did), but I typed out a similar idea a couple of weeks ago about the Forum losing its focus and turning in on itself. I'd also include the ongoing Sky 'situation' as part of that - the longer Sky go on dominating the racing but without any more incriminating skeletons being revealed, the more (I guess) the forum will turn in ever diminishing circles.

With regards to Dr Mas reflexively I'm against a perma-ban, as those posts I think were just a symptom of the dysfunctional culture on this forum. On the other hand one of the biggest dysfunctions, in my opinion, is the 'two-speed' moderation; stay around long enough/post enough and you get a certain carte blanche to consistently post in anti-social ways. And unfortunately a number of long-term posters do just that, and the net result is the 'civil war' that Hog describes above and a toxic posting culture that seemingly no one is happy with. Don't know what the answer is though I'm afraid.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

"Secret Tribunals" is fairly dramatic and pejorative. The process is much less odious than that, it's simply a message in a private forum describing the situation and asking for feedback. Consensus is not required but consultation is a very good idea, and for heavy action I have not seen a mod act without some kind of agreement/feedback from others.

What is the other option? To have every complaint and issue aired out in public? Not useful or tenable.

As for publicly stating the reason for the ban, I agree that should always be done. I am also 100% certain from experience that it will do nothing to quell the rancor. No explanation would satisfy all members here, of that you can be sure. But nevertheless, an explanation should always be provided.

Things would go more smoothly here if members didn't imagine dark forces at play and erred on the side of assuming good faith. You would be correct 95% of the time.

Dr. Mas is a long-time, valuable member and his permanent ban is unwarranted. Period. I don't care why they did it. I don't care what their reason de jure is for it; it was a stupid moderation decision, secret or not.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Dr. Mas is a long-time, valuable member and his permanent ban is unwarranted. Period. I don't care why they did it. I don't care what their reason de jure is for it; it was a stupid moderation decision, secret or not

Repeat
and agree…

many others still here that have way more flicked in the face of authority

 

[ebandit]

strange

however I describe events 'unfortunate' 'sad' 'regrettable' I end up with the same conclusion mods were not only correct to ban dr mas but had no other option

the doctor had brought that about themself

from the first of recent bans ( when I wondered ..........how could a reasonable poster such as mas who sought to work within the rules be banned ) their behaviour became more and more unreasonable

increasing arrogance and a clear statement to the mods 'do not apply forum rules to my posts' left no other likely outcome

Mark L

 

[Scott SoCal]

however I describe events 'unfortunate' 'sad' 'regrettable' I end up with the same conclusion mods were not only correct to ban dr mas but had no other option

the doctor had brought that about themself

from the first of recent bans ( when I wondered ..........how could a reasonable poster such as mas who sought to work within the rules be banned ) their behaviour became more and more unreasonable

increasing arrogance and a clear statement to the mods 'do not apply forum rules to my posts' left no other likely outcome

Mark L

Wrong.

Delete his post and let him take it up with Dan. He posts something over the top again, delete and let him take it up with Dan.

That the mod squad over-reacted is typical. A little bit over power goes a very long way, or so it seems.

 

[ebandit]

?

Wrong.

really? Dan's rules were implemented.................do you think Dan now feels that those employed to implement those rules have overstepped their responsibility/acted incorrectly

better drop Dan a line.............................

Mark L

 

[Scott SoCal]

really? Dan's rules were implemented.................do you think Dan now feels that those employed to implement those rules have overstepped their responsibility/acted incorrectly

better drop Dan a line.............................

Mark L

Only if you believe Dr Mas is a liar.

Don't know what Dan thinks. But his actions, or lack of, tell the story.

Don't need to drop Dan a line. Ain't my fight.


Interesting, tho, how over the years how much information brought to this forum made its way to the front pages of CN. Interesting how many of those posters don't spend much time here. Mas was one of those.

The phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" springs to mind.

 

[TheGame]

Dr. Mas is a long-time, valuable member and his permanent ban is unwarranted. Period. I don't care why they did it. I don't care what their reason de jure is for it; it was a stupid moderation decision, secret or not.

Would it have even got to this point under the old guard of Francois, Barrus, and even more recently Heiro. Mas probably deserved a short suspension, but the fact is, it should never have got that far to start with.

Its like inviting painters in, saying you want magnolia, watching them paint it magnolia, and then banning the painters when they have finished painting because they painted it magnolia.

That aside, the clinic 12 are just upset because now its only the clinic 11.

 

[King Boonen]

Wrong.

Delete his post and let him take it up with Dan. He posts something over the top again, delete and let him take it up with Dan.

That the mod squad over-reacted is typical. A little bit over power goes a very long way, or so it seems.

Sorry, that's utterly ridiculous.


I don't think he should have been perma-banned, but I'm not surprised it happened. I am surprised it hasn't happened to others though.

 

[Granville57]

however I describe events 'unfortunate' 'sad' 'regrettable' I end up with the same conclusion mods were not only correct to ban dr mas but had no other option

Of course they had other options.

1) A short-term ban

2) No ban.

See? That's two other options right there.

And what if they hadn't banned Dr Mas for his provocation of the entire mod staff? Would the forum had collapsed? Would CN have shut down? Would women and children have been left homeless?

 

[the sceptic]

well, it appears the people have spoken.

86% against the permaban.

Surely something can be done to bring him back. This isnt North Korea.

 

[thehog]

I think this is pretty much on the money with this - not sure if I ever posted it (don't think I did), but I typed out a similar idea a couple of weeks ago about the Forum losing its focus and turning in on itself. I'd also include the ongoing Sky 'situation' as part of that - the longer Sky go on dominating the racing but without any more incriminating skeletons being revealed, the more (I guess) the forum will turn in ever diminishing circles.

With regards to Dr Mas reflexively I'm against a perma-ban, as those posts I think were just a symptom of the dysfunctional culture on this forum. On the other hand one of the biggest dysfunctions, in my opinion, is the 'two-speed' moderation; stay around long enough/post enough and you get a certain carte blanche to consistently post in anti-social ways. And unfortunately a number of long-term posters do just that, and the net result is the 'civil war' that Hog describes above and a toxic posting culture that seemingly no one is happy with. Don't know what the answer is though I'm afraid.

It became no more evident than with David Walsh.

There it was. The guy who at one point was the hero all of sudden became the devil.

Walsh at one point was the one variable that caused unity on the forum and then became the face of the factional splits.

And that being the point. People will not always agree with everything you want them to. People will have different mindsets on different topics. That's pretty much normal life.

I've always been skeptical of those who tell me what to believe. I much prefer to ask questions, asses the data and make my own mind up.

Mas always asked in relation to Walsh; have you read the article? And he was right. A lot of hadn't read the Walsh articles but commented on him anyway.

That comment made me think when the Walsh book came out. Actually before I comment, allow myself to read it. And I did. It was a pathetic and poor excuse for writing. But at least I took the time to make up my own mind. Thus why I printed excerpts here.

 

[King Boonen]

well, it appears the people have spoken.

86% against the permaban.

Surely something can be done to bring him back. This isnt North Korea.

Would he come back?

 

[ebandit]

bad to worse

Of course they had other options.

And what if they hadn't banned Dr Mas for his provocation of the entire mod staff? Would the forum had collapsed? Would CN have shut down? Would women and children have been left homeless?

imagine how intolerable the doc would have become then?

the way I see it the Doc is the one that did wrong NOT the mods

if the Doc is unhappy about the permaban it is up to them to reach

out and discuss

Mark L

 

[Scott SoCal]

Sorry, that's utterly ridiculous.


I don't think he should have been perma-banned, but I'm not surprised it happened. I am surprised it hasn't happened to others though.

Not ridiculous at all. It's called moderation.

And to be perfectly clear, Mas should have been given more consideration than say someone like me. He brings much more to this forum than I do.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Would he come back?

WHY would he come back is a better question.

 

[the sceptic]

It became no more evident than with David Walsh.

There it was. The guy who at one point was the hero all of sudden became the devil.

Walsh at one point was the one variable that caused unity on the forum and then became the face of the factional splits.

And that being the point. People will not always agree with everything you want them to. People will have different mindsets on different topics. That's pretty much normal life.

I've always been skeptical of those who tell me what to believe. I much prefer to ask questions, asses the data and make my own mind up.

Mas always asked in relation to Walsh; have you read the article? And he was right. A lot of hadn't read the Walsh articles but commented on him anyway.

That comment made me think when the Walsh book came out. Actually before I comment, allow myself to read it. And I did. It was a pathetic and poor excuse for writing. But at least I took the time to make up my own mind. Thus why I printed excerpts here.

Who is going to tell me to read "my sideways climb" now? I already feel a strong urge to ridicule it, and it hasnt even been written yet!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If you find that image either violent or sexual, i worry for you...

Rule 34, look it up.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Sorry, that's utterly ridiculous.


I don't think he should have been perma-banned, but I'm not surprised it happened. I am surprised it hasn't happened to others though.

You wrote this while looking in a mirror obviously.

 

[MarkvW]

imagine how intolerable the doc would have become then?

the way I see it the Doc is the one that did wrong NOT the mods

if the Doc is unhappy about the permaban it is up to them to reach

out and discuss

Mark L

Maserati's last little manifesto was his declaration that he was beyond moderation. The only response to that is a ban. Maserati is truly beyond moderation now.

Maserati can't let anything go. The Vortex is the best example of that. Sometimes he can definitely lose it if the argument goes on for too long, or if it's not going too well for him. That obsessive trait of his can definitely be exploited for fun and amusement.

But to exploit it far enough to cause a ban? That's just cruel. And I think that happened here.

I'm going to miss the Doctor.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Maserati's last little manifesto was his declaration that he was beyond moderation. The only response to that is a ban. Maserati is truly beyond moderation now.

Maserati can't let anything go. The Vortex is the best example of that. Sometimes he can definitely lose it if the argument goes on for too long, or if it's not going too well for him. That obsessive trait of his can definitely be exploited for fun and amusement.

But to exploit it far enough to cause a ban? That's just cruel. And I think that happened here.

I'm going to miss the Doctor.

Not exactly. I'll highlight what you missed;

Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati

Hi Berzin,
I see you are online.

I noticed again that you are back deleting my posts for no good reason. I assume you are baiting so I will put a stop to it now.

You are not, under any circumstances (including this post), to mod any of my posts ever again. Do what you do best - sit on your hands.
You are not to edit, modify, snip or delete any of my posts in any way- if you have a problem with that - then you, not I, run along and take it up with Dan and bring him in here.

And if you attempt another stunt like you did last week with me, or anyone else - I will go straight to Dan, with all the screen grabs and other information about what you do, (and what you don't do) - and I will make sure you are Netserked.

(And if any other mod interferes with this post they will suffer the same fate)

And I'm not even an attorney.

 

[Hugh Januss]

But to exploit it far enough to cause a ban? That's just cruel. And I think that happened here.

I'm going to miss the Doctor.

It's not just cruel when it's done by a mod, it should be grounds for removal from that position.