What kind of Smoking Gun Evidence will come out in the LA Lawsuit?

[tockit]

I've been following the developments of this lawsuit for the last couple of weeks and there have been tons of circumstantial evidence discussed in the forums.

For instance, recorded third party phone conversations, accusations of payoffs to different people and organizations, etc, etc.


One thing I haven't heard anyone really talk about, (although I could have missed it), is concrete evidence that can be used to pin on Armstrong.

Like the saying goes: 'It ain't what you know, it's what you can prove in court'.

I know Landis claims he was shown the details of how to dope by Armstrong while he was with Postal (which I tend to believe), but will there be any SOLID evidence that will come out in this case?

I mean, can they go after those '99 urine samples with the EPO, and if so, will they still be valid after 11 years?

Anyone think they'll find receipts or a paper trail to someone like Ferrari, etc???

Just curious to everyone else's thoughts on how this thing might unfold...

 

[scribe]

They'll have Landis's testimony and probably one or two others that will cooborate a couple of things under oath. They might get some details on the flow of cash that probably won't prove a greater conspiracy to dope, but might lead to some different, if not less serious charges.

 

[Benotti69]

they have lots, but they aint gonna tell us so his lawyers can be prepared...

 

[Barrus]

To be honest I don't think there will be any smoking gun, the major parts of the case appears to be based on circumstancial evidence, at the moment at least to my knowledge, which only stems from the media. The only real somking gun that I can imagine is a paper/money-trail concerning doping and the missing bikes/USPS sponsorship money. Or perhaps the testimony of one or more of those directly implicated that can truly point to Lance as either the ringleader or the provider of the drugs

 

[goober]

Interestingly enough most have it wrong. This investigation is not just targeting Armstrong and USPS, etc. There are far more teams and individuals involved. Most of the current discussions have been around other teams and riders. I also have heard the IS evidence but not around the USPS team (yet).

 

[ManInFull]

To be honest I don't think there will be any smoking gun, the major parts of the case appears to be based on circumstancial evidence, at the moment at least to my knowledge, which only stems from the media. The only real somking gun that I can imagine is a paper/money-trail concerning doping and the missing bikes/USPS sponsorship money. Or perhaps the testimony of one or more of those directly implicated that can truly point to Lance as either the ringleader or the provider of the drugs

Well, I don't think has has to be officially be found "guilty" of anything to suffer in the public's eye. As long as there are multiple cyclists, associates, etc. from the US Postal days who confirm most of what FL said, LA will suffer immensely.

 

[Kennf1]

Well, I don't think has has to be officially be found "guilty" of anything to suffer in the public's eye. As long as there are multiple cyclists, associates, etc. from the US Postal days who confirm most of what FL said, LA will suffer immensely.

Exactly. This will go down as the most disastrous and ill-conceived "comeback" in history. The branding, appearance fees, advertising deals, and night clubbing will suffer.
It may not hit him until Robin Williams and Ben Stiller stop returning his text messages.

 

[MacRoadie]

It may not hit him until Robin Williams and Ben Stiller stop returning his text messages.

Doubt if that will happen, but if it does I'm sure McConnaughey is ready to slide right back in...

 

[Anonymous]

Will it be on telly?

(damnit. i hope theres a good stream)

 

[Big Doopie]

Interestingly enough most have it wrong. This investigation is not just targeting Armstrong and USPS, etc. There are far more teams and individuals involved. Most of the current discussions have been around other teams and riders. I also have heard the IS evidence but not around the USPS team (yet).

 

[Realist]

I've been following the developments of this lawsuit for the last couple of weeks and there have been tons of circumstantial evidence discussed in the forums.

For instance, recorded third party phone conversations, accusations of payoffs to different people and organizations, etc, etc.


One thing I haven't heard anyone really talk about, (although I could have missed it), is concrete evidence that can be used to pin on Armstrong.

Like the saying goes: 'It ain't what you know, it's what you can prove in court'.

I know Landis claims he was shown the details of how to dope by Armstrong while he was with Postal (which I tend to believe), but will there be any SOLID evidence that will come out in this case?

I mean, can they go after those '99 urine samples with the EPO, and if so, will they still be valid after 11 years?

Anyone think they'll find receipts or a paper trail to someone like Ferrari, etc???

Just curious to everyone else's thoughts on how this thing might unfold...

You understand that direct testimony is not circumstantial evidence right? Also, you can occasionally convict on circumstantial evidence alone, and you can convict quite easily on direct testimony in many circumstances.

 

[Anonymous]

Also note that there is no lawsuit. We are not talking about a civil case here, it is a criminal investigation that has not been presented to the grand jury yet, so there is no trial yet either. Doubtful there will be a smoking gun regardless.

 

[sars1981]

It would be nice if a photo got leaked of US Postal haveing a group transfusion somewhere. We can only hope.

 

[Realist]

It would be nice if a photo got leaked of US Postal haveing a group transfusion somewhere. We can only hope.

Pretty sure there were no cameras in that room. We're not talking Kayle Leogrande here.

Edit: I get that you were joking (at least, I think you were). I'm just playing too...

 

[sars1981]

Pretty sure there were no cameras in that room. We're not talking Kayle Leogrande here.

Edit: I get that you were joking (at least, I think you were). I'm just playing too...

Yeah just jokes. But I often think that out of all these years of systematic doping there must SOME smoking guns out there. Maybe not photos, but diaries, receipts, text-messages, emails. With all these athletes being subpoenaed hopefully one of them will cooperate and be able to provide some kind of physical evidence.


*edit: Testimony is pretty damning but we all know there are some obtuce morons around here who will never be convinced unless Lance is photographed doping or admits to it.

 

[movingtarget]

Landis is the gun and the gun is defective.............

 

[Cozy Beehive]

I hear something is brewing in Denmark. But its not in the press yet. Anyone have any news?

 

[Realist]

Yeah just jokes. But I often think that out of all these years of systematic doping there must SOME smoking guns out there. Maybe not photos, but diaries, receipts, text-messages, emails. With all these athletes being subpoenaed hopefully one of them will cooperate and and be able to provide some kind of physical evidence.


*edit: Testimony is pretty damning but we all know there are some obtuce morons around here who will never be convinced unless Lance photographed doping or admits to it.

I agree there is likely to be enough concrete evidence - ironically, probably mostly circumstantial - to waylay a lot of the doubt. Eg, phone records, bank transfers, emails, etc.

 

[S2Sturges]

Exactly. This will go down as the most disastrous and ill-conceived "comeback" in history. The branding, appearance fees, advertising deals, and night clubbing will suffer.
It may not hit him until Robin Williams and Ben Stiller stop returning his text messages.

Not to mention his possible dash to be Governor of Texas one day

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I hear something is brewing in Denmark. But its not in the press yet. Anyone have any news?

Waiting for more details... Something is afoot.

 

[sars1981]

What are you guy's talking about? Clue all us outsiders in whydoncha

 

[editedbymod]

It would be nice if a photo got leaked of US Postal haveing a group transfusion somewhere. We can only hope.

A group photo of the coke and stripper sessions much more preferred. Strangely I think the media would be more interested in a scandal of that kind than an athlete who doped.

I do note Sheryl the Crowe is doing a comeback of her own the week in the papers. I do wonder what she thinks of this lark.

 

[editedbymod]

Waiting for more details... Something is afoot.

A new Radioshack commercial? Yes please. They are a joy and a little quirky.

 

[SpartacusRox]

You understand that direct testimony is not circumstantial evidence right? Also, you can occasionally convict on circumstantial evidence alone, and you can convict quite easily on direct testimony in many circumstances.

While that is true, it is entirely dependent on the credibility of the witness. Floyd has none of course. Others would have a lot more but if it is a game of he said,she said it will hardly be enough for "beyond reasonable doubt". In this particular case it will take more than direct testimony unless it is very weighted to one side.

 

[Benotti69]

While that is true, it is entirely dependent on the credibility of the witness. Floyd has none of course. Others would have a lot more but if it is a game of he said,she said it will hardly be enough for "beyond reasonable doubt". In this particular case it will take more than direct testimony unless it is very weighted to one side.

Flyod has none because LA says he has none. That scenario will no doubt be reversed very quickly or maybe for the investigators has already happened.