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What kind of Smoking Gun Evidence will come out in the LA Lawsuit?

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SpartacusRox said:
While that is true, it is entirely dependent on the credibility of the witness. Floyd has none of course. Others would have a lot more but if it is a game of he said,she said it will hardly be enough for "beyond reasonable doubt". In this particular case it will take more than direct testimony unless it is very weighted to one side.

Floyd has no credibility? :confused: Because he lied previously about doping? Strange for an athlete to have done that.:rolleyes::eek:

Agree with Benotti69 and federal investigators also seem to think Floyd's voice is credible. How can anyone believe he has just made it all up?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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sars1981 said:
It would be nice if a photo got leaked of US Postal haveing a group transfusion somewhere. We can only hope.
I remember reading somewhere several months back that Floyd had a picture of a courier's motorbike with refrigerated compartments on it that was used to deliver blood (or whatever they were supposedly using) to the team.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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SpartacusRox said:
While that is true, it is entirely dependent on the credibility of the witness. Floyd has none of course. Others would have a lot more but if it is a game of he said,she said it will hardly be enough for "beyond reasonable doubt". In this particular case it will take more than direct testimony unless it is very weighted to one side.

Well the credibility of Landis as a witness will be a question for the the court (mainly the jury). I wouldn't bet that they attach zero credibility to his testimony. It is certainly not the case that previous improprieties typically lead to all future testimony being attached zero weight. "He said, she said" (in one form or another) is often enough to remove all reasonable doubt.

In fact... let's make this bet:

I bet that if Landis testifies regarding organized doping in the US Postal Service cycling team, his testimony is relied upon in making findings of fact.

If I win: you apologize for saying something as weak as 'Floyd has none, of course'. You start a thread entitled 'I was wrong'.

Like this:

SpartacusRox said:
I was wrong. I said that Floyd had no credibility as a witness. It turns out I massively misread the way legal proceedings work. I completely admit that my understanding of such things was inadequate to make the sweeping statements I made on this forum. Furthermore, I especially draw attention to my use of the words 'of course' in making those statements. To say 'of course' whilst describing something that is not true requires a particular failure of imagination. On that day, I failed.

If you lose, I'll write:

Realist said:
I was wrong. I said that SpartacusRox had no credibility as a witness. It turns out I massively misread the way legal proceedings work. I completely admit that my understanding of such things was inadequate to make the sweeping statements I made on this forum. Furthermore, I especially draw attention to my use of the words 'of course' in making those statements. To say 'of course' whilst describing something that is not true requires a particular failure of imagination. On that day, I failed.

Feel free to edit my paragraph to your satisfaction and then propose a counter-bet with it.

If it doesn't go to court, bet is off. You in?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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tockit said:
I remember reading somewhere several months back that Floyd had a picture of a courier's motorbike with refrigerated compartments on it that was used to deliver blood (or whatever they were supposedly using) to the team.

Floyd was quoted in a story as saying that he did not have any pictures of anything. What you remember reading was other posters wishful thinking.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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chambers said:
Floyd was quoted in a story as saying that he did not have any pictures of anything. What you remember reading was other posters wishful thinking.

Unfortunately I think this is most likely true.
 
sars1981 said:
Unfortunately I think this is most likely true.

No, what is being recalled is the IM conversation between Vaughters and Andreu. They intimated that Floyd has photos of a motorcycle with panniers which was used to bring in the blood.

As far as I know it's not illegal to have a motorcycle with panniers in France. So Floyd would not call it evidence.
 
Jul 3, 2010
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Colm.Murphy said:
>Originally Posted by Cozy Beehive
>I hear something is brewing in Denmark. But its not in the press yet. Anyone >have any news?

Waiting for more details... Something is afoot.


What's happened to this then?
 
Jul 27, 2010
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SpartacusRox said:
While that is true, it is entirely dependent on the credibility of the witness. Floyd has none of course.

As far as credibility is concerned, I'm not sure Floyd has "none", unless you believe the transparently silly Armstrong/Bruyneel stance, i.e. "Floyd lied about his drug taking, therefore absolutely everything he says is a lie"
 
Aug 3, 2010
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ah yes the delusion about armstrong.
I think that the truth will come out and that LA is in trouble. I think that suspicion is aroused by the very fact that armstrong crushed all his rivals who were all doping, Ullrich, basso, mancebo, rumsas(no positive in 2002 but just happened to have his wife driving around a cooler full of steroids, epo, testosterone etc) botero the list goes on. This of course does not prove anything, but it is quite damning in itself. All those riders passed tests and I dont think anyone is naive enough to think that the tests are foolproof, we all know that there are ways of getting around them.
It shall be an interesting couple of months. I think the vast majority of people who are happy that this investigation is occuring(myself included) are not happy because they hate a winner but are happy because they are sick of lies and cheating and suspicion. The work that Walsh and Ballester did, is in my opinion, credible, they are respected journalists and have no reason to lie. LA won a libel claim in britain against the Times and Walsh when the latter wrote about the book in the Sunday edition but English libel law is very claimant friendly so I would not say that Armstrong was vindicated by the ruling. The people who have come out against armstrong have all been worse off for doing so but they continue to come out. I agree that Landis is not very credible but to dismiss his claims totally is wrong, everyone scoffed at manzano when he came out with accusations of widespread blood doping and testosterone use within the peloton, and he turned out to be right, so if LA is innocent he has nothing to worry about and the truth will come out, but conversely he has a lot to worry about if he did indeed have his hand in the cookie jar
 
Feb 14, 2010
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What would it require legally to get every test sample of his still being stored and have them retested? I imagine the USADA ones would be a start. If someone would come up with an approved test for own blood transfusions while this process continues, that would be sweet. Proving he doped his way to third place in 2009 would be a massive step, because a lo more people would question the earlier years.
 
alexanderplatz said:
The work that Walsh and Ballester did, is in my opinion, credible, they are respected journalists and have no reason to lie.

Your kidding arent you, "respected Journalists"

Lets add some other stupid phrases. :)

"Army Intelligence"
"I wont come in your mouth"
"Does my bum look big in this dress"


Regards


Hugh
 
May 7, 2009
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sars1981 said:
....we all know there are some obtuce morons around here who will never be convinced unless Lance is photographed doping or admits to it.



I think there are some on here for whom even that would not be enough proof
 
Jun 19, 2009
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I don't think the evidence will be dramatic and will disappoint those waiting for the visual trainwreck. What will likely be key evidence is some mundane but illegal transfer of money for illegal products. Everyone connected will be tainted pretty much like Balco but in this instance I think Novitsky is going for a big fish and LA is not that target. LA is public but I have a hunch it's possibly Weisel and connections he has made. I have no evidence but it seems he is a sizeable target and he knows other big timers.
Lance will be a slow wreck and is losing endorsement steam right now. For those that relish him in pain he is hurting now, I'll bet.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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sars1981 said:
there are some obtuce morons around here who will never be convinced unless Lance is photographed doping or admits to it.

My prediction is that if it's becomes OBVIOUS, Lance will "admit". He will go on primetime TV w/ softball interviewer (Barbara Walters?). His line of BS will be as such:

"In '99, I did it b/c I wanted to triumph personally over cancer."

"After '99, it became more than just about me. It was for the global cancer community and the foundation. I couldn't let them down. So I kept doping. I did it because I cared too much."

And THAT will be all the fanboys will ever need to know about that :(
 
May 21, 2010
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red_flanders said:
No, what is being recalled is the IM conversation between Vaughters and Andreu. They intimated that Floyd has photos of a motorcycle with panniers which was used to bring in the blood.

As far as I know it's not illegal to have a motorcycle with panniers in France. So Floyd would not call it evidence.

Not just panniers but a motorbike with refrigerated panniers (apparently). So they would be from either a Medical courier supply shop or a one-off special made by someone trustworthy. Still if the motorbike exist somebody somewhere should have a picture of it and maybe the license plate number. They could then track down where it is now and lean on a few people who knew about it.

Same thing with buying EPO in Switzerland. If they have someone who says they purchased EPO for one of the riders in some Swiss town on such and such a day that pharmacy will still have a record of it. The Swiss are very good at keeping records. It may say that the man who purchased it was a Mr. Josef Blough but it still could corroborate someone's story.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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From good sources, I have heard that the motorcycle is now owned by Edita Rumsas' mother. She needs it for when she heads out to visit her Spanish gynecologist (to pick up the Schlecks' training plans).

Apparently she did have a self-propelled bicycle, but Cancellara borrowed it this spring and never returned it.
 
Aug 3, 2010
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theswordsman said:
What would it require legally to get every test sample of his still being stored and have them retested? I imagine the USADA ones would be a start. If someone would come up with an approved test for own blood transfusions while this process continues, that would be sweet. Proving he doped his way to third place in 2009 would be a massive step, because a lo more people would question the earlier years.

If people dont have doubts about the early years by now then they ll never have them because they are clearly delusional
 
Hear! Hear!

NashbarShorts said:
My prediction is that if it's becomes OBVIOUS, Lance will "admit". He will go on primetime TV w/ softball interviewer (Barbara Walters?). His line of BS will be as such:

"In '99, I did it b/c I wanted to triumph personally over cancer."

"After '99, it became more than just about me. It was for the global cancer community and the foundation. I couldn't let them down. So I kept doping. I did it because I cared too much."

And THAT will be all the fanboys will ever need to know about that :(

I think that's the 'nuclear option' for team Pharmstrong. I think the Public Strategies people are so good at their job they know they've got lots of options before this tactic. It's always easier to ask forgiveness from the cancer community.

Right now, the myth is taking a few hits. It seems obvious a 'lay low' strategy for the celebrity is in full effect right now. His hired guns are doing the opinion shaping now and will use the MMA fighter's story as a sympathy generator. Had the media stopped at opinion stories like the Forbes?/Fortune? then there would be much more for Public Strategies to worry about.

Oldman's comment above yours is of great interest to me too. I want to know how deep Weisel and Co are in on building the myth. I know that's not relevant to many, but I think it's a bigger story and more important to the health of competitive cycling in the U.S.
 
May 7, 2009
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Lance is busy in Denver today

from http://www.9news.com

Lance Armstrong will be leading a bike ride from the state capitol down Grant St. to Speer Blvd., down Speer Blvd. to Downing St., along Downing St. to Washington Park and back along the same route. The roads will be closed during the ride.
Most people are buying into all this...
 
Deagol said:
Lance is busy in Denver today

from http://www.9news.com

Lance Armstrong will be leading a bike ride from the state capitol down Grant St. to Speer Blvd., down Speer Blvd. to Downing St., along Downing St. to Washington Park and back along the same route. The roads will be closed during the ride.
Most people are buying into all this...

He'll be stopping at the soda shop for a chocolate malt before heading over to the barber shop to see the boys and read the paper, then he might visit the diner for a slice of apple pie...