What's the Status on Armstrong vs. FDA?

[Race Radio]

Public opinion on Hog's post? Pretty much all of the posters on the site that posted the article think that the whole investigation is a waste of money and i don't think that many of them are Armstrong fans per se, they just couldn't care less about the whole thing.

That snapshot of the great unwashed is pretty much how most Americans will view the matter. Outside of the Omerta on this site, I am picking that the tide of public and therefore probably political opinion will be on the side of Armstrong.

99% of Americans couldn't give a toss about cycling. They only see Lance the cancer hero. They will just view the whole thing as once again the government wasting their money while there is real crime to investigate.

As one guy so eloquently put it: "Armstrong, who cares, lets get the world series back on tv."

That quote encapsulates pretty much how the average American Joe will see this whole thing. I think that the responses to the article on Hog's link were pretty much 99% in this vein.

The Feds will turn out to be the bad guys in this in the eyes of the US public, if you can't see that you need glasses.

You are kidding. The law is not based on the opinion of a few Public Strategies interns who repeat the same talking points in the comments section of every Armstrong story.

How big does Armstrong's crime have to be for it to be OK to investigate him?

 

[eleven]

Really? please share with us the charges Novitzky will be filing.

More than one of the issues that have been raised - in the public forum - would be state charges.

 

[eleven]

No they aren't. That is a federal investigation and there would be no reason for a Federal investigator to seek trial in state court. That is for state prosecutors and investigators. Once any of this went across a state line, it is over in terms of a state court. They aren't going to play this game in the bush leagues.

1. The Texas Court system isn't the Bush Leagues. It's where issues involving state law are settled.

2. If the federal investigator has evidence of wrongdoing involving state law, what court do you suppose will hear that?

 

[Darryl Webster]

Exactly! Thank you Darryl!

Your welcome..but a wise man with integrity recognises when he`s wrong!

 

[eleven]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The case is a FEDERAL case that will be heard in a Los Angeles federal district court, which has NOTHING to do with Texas state politics or state courts.

I don't think the problem here is what I know or don't know.

 

[Barrus]

Public opinion on Hog's post? Pretty much all of the posters on the site that posted the article think that the whole investigation is a waste of money and i don't think that many of them are Armstrong fans per se, they just couldn't care less about the whole thing.

That snapshot of the great unwashed is pretty much how most Americans will view the matter. Outside of the Omerta on this site, I am picking that the tide of public and therefore probably political opinion will be on the side of Armstrong.

99% of Americans couldn't give a toss about cycling. They only see Lance the cancer hero. They will just view the whole thing as once again the government wasting their money while there is real crime to investigate.

As one guy so eloquently put it: "Armstrong, who cares, lets get the world series back on tv."

That quote encapsulates pretty much how the average American Joe will see this whole thing. I think that the responses to the article on Hog's link were pretty much 99% in this vein.

The Feds will turn out to be the bad guys in this in the eyes of the US public, if you can't see that you need glasses.

You do realize that a large amount of the prosecutions would offend at least some, and many prosecutions are contrary to popular opinion, if these would be widely publicized, the prosecution I mean

 

[avanti]

............. The case is a FEDERAL case that will be heard in a Los Angeles federal district court, .................

Only if there is an indictment.

 

[tubularglue]

the beauty of this entire scenario, is it does not matter what we think.

The ball is in motion.

As far as the waste of money comments, that literally has nothing to do with what is being investigated. Sort of a sideshow distraction.

If proven guilty, worth the money spent?
If proven innocent, worth the money spent?
how many people care?

No one knows.

 

[SpartacusRox]

You are kidding. The law is not based on the opinion of a few Public Strategies interns who repeat the same talking points in the comments section of every Armstrong story.

How big does Armstrong's crime have to be for it to be OK to investigate him?

I wasn't aware that he had committed any crime? can you enlighten me as to what crime he has been charged with?

As to your law comments, I was merely making a point from reading the post responses, I am not convinced about your Public Strategies assumption. It is interesting how the anti Armstrong brigade are already floating political interference as potentially scuttling the 'investigation'. I guess it is always good to have a ready source of excuses at hand should things turn pear shaped.

 

[Race Radio]

I wasn't aware that he had committed any crime? can you enlighten me as to what crime he has been charged with?

As to your law comments, I was merely making a point from reading the post responses, I am not convinced about your Public Strategies assumption. It is interesting how the anti Armstrong brigade are already floating political interference as potentially scuttling the 'investigation'. I guess it is always good to have a ready source of excuses at hand should things turn pear shaped.

Nice try, but I have never said or inferred that Public Strategies, or Fabiani, will have any effect on the investigation. So far their attempts at spin have failed miserably with all but the most committed groupies.

Of course Armstrong has done nothing wrong. That is why Novtizky is investigating him, so he can prove to the world it is all a French Conspiracy.

 

[Benotti69]

...
Of course Armstrong has done nothing wrong. That is why Novtizky is investigating him, so he can prove to the world it is all a French Conspiracy.

Nah Novitsky fancies a Villa in France, but doesn't want to pay for it so he is using a witch hunt after the Uniballer to get a freebie from the French as a little thankyou

I have to say i am enjoying the way Novitsky has gone about this, talking to everyone but the 'supposed' target in order to get everyone talking about the so called 'big fish' which works in his favour to try get to the very end of the trail that is being investigated, whether that is the Uniballer or not. Lots of people in usa cycling have been sweating for a few months now and no doubt will continue to sweat for more....

 

[SpartacusRox]

Nah Novitsky fancies a Villa in France, but doesn't want to pay for it so he is using a witch hunt after the Uniballer to get a freebie from the French as a little thankyou

I have to say i am enjoying the way Novitsky has gone about this, talking to everyone but the 'supposed' target in order to get everyone talking about the so called 'big fish' which works in his favour to try get to the very end of the trail that is being investigated, whether that is the Uniballer or not. Lots of people in usa cycling have been sweating for a few months now and no doubt will continue to sweat for more....

He hasn't gone about the investigation any differently than any other investigator would. Assuming for a moment that Armstrong is the focus, then of course he would speak to him last. Why would you speak to the prime suspect until you have gathered as much evidence as you can.

Having said that I have seen nothing from any reliable source that Armstrong is the prime target.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Nice try, but I have never said or inferred that Public Strategies, or Fabiani, will have any effect on the investigation. So far their attempts at spin have failed miserably with all but the most committed groupies.

Of course Armstrong has done nothing wrong. That is why Novtizky is investigating him, so he can prove to the world it is all a French Conspiracy.

So you are saying that every person who is investigated is actually guilty? Your constant referral to Armstrong having committed a 'crime' is the real spin on here. I am surprised you are not feeling dizzy.

You present the classic strawman argument:

Person A is being investigated -----> therefore he must be guilty, because the Feds only investigate guilty people -----> Therefore he must have committed a crime-------> therefore I can just refer to his 'crime' as a foregone conclusion and POW! person A becomes a criminal.

We can sort out the small details later; like the fact that no charges have been laid, the fact that we are not even sure who charges will be laid against, if any. the fact that no case has been presented nor the small detail that no convictions have been entered.

Nice one RR, you take the prize as the uber spin doctor.

 

[Muriel]

Having said that I have seen nothing from any reliable source that Armstrong is the prime target.

Yes, that's an important point to remember. My gut feel is that he'll be the biggest fish in the net.

 

[buckwheat]

So you are saying that every person who is investigated is actually guilty? Your constant referral to Armstrong having committed a 'crime' is the real spin on here. I am surprised you are not feeling dizzy.

You present the classic strawman argument:

Person A is being investigated -----> therefore he must be guilty, because the Feds only investigate guilty people -----> Therefore he must have committed a crime-------> therefore I can just refer to his 'crime' as a foregone conclusion and POW! person A becomes a criminal.

We can sort out the small details later; like the fact that no charges have been laid, the fact that we are not even sure who charges will be laid against, if any. the fact that no case has been presented nor the small detail that no convictions have been entered.

Nice one RR, you take the prize as the uber spin doctor.

Race Radio just started saying Pharmstrong was a fraud since the investigation started?

That's when all the accusations started coming out publicly?


Odd that Pharmstrong has been publicly denying that he's a fraud for more than 10 years.

You must have lapped up that Pharmstrong podium speech back in '05 like Pharmstrong's "lactate."

Its true. Not everyone can lactate like LA

 

[SpartacusRox]

Race Radio just started saying Pharmstrong was a fraud since the investigation started?

That's when all the accusations started coming out publicly?


Odd that Pharmstrong has been publicly denying that he's a fraud for more than 10 years.

You must have lapped up that Pharmstrong podium speech back in '05 like Pharmstrong's "lactate."

Your response has nothing at all to do with the point I was making. Perhaps if you had read it properly rather than tripping over yourself to fly to the defence of your forum buddy...

 

[Oldman]

Yes, that's an important point to remember. My gut feel is that he'll be the biggest fish in the net.

He'll be the biggest bait but it's not likely that much about Lance. Getting him in an uncomfortable position will make Novitsky's other targets easier fish to land. Let's just call him Lance Chumstrong. Everyone knows what happens to chum.

 

[yourwelcome]

He'll be the biggest bait but it's not likely that much about Lance.

I wonder about that too. Isn't the Feds brief to investigate whether federal money was used to buy PEDs?

In which case, busting individual PED users might be ranked well below team management with direct access to team funds. Scary for any doping riders to be caught up in but if they used their own money for instance, they're not really the big target, and some would escape the repercussions altogether.

 

[Muriel]

Are you guys of the opinion then that LA won't get prosecuted for something? That he'll just be bait? THAT would seriously p*ss me off!

Nah, I reckon he'll be in the net. I wouldn't want to guess exactly what for but I do think he'll be amongst the catch.

But I've never thought this investigation was out to get any one person. I think it's focus is primarily what happened rather than who did it. Obviously, there are people behind the 'what' so once the 'what' is established then the perps will be reeled in. That may or may not include LA. Personally, I think it will.

 

[ChrisE]

So you are saying that every person who is investigated is actually guilty? Your constant referral to Armstrong having committed a 'crime' is the real spin on here. I am surprised you are not feeling dizzy.

You present the classic strawman argument:

Person A is being investigated -----> therefore he must be guilty, because the Feds only investigate guilty people -----> Therefore he must have committed a crime-------> therefore I can just refer to his 'crime' as a foregone conclusion and POW! person A becomes a criminal.

We can sort out the small details later; like the fact that no charges have been laid, the fact that we are not even sure who charges will be laid against, if any. the fact that no case has been presented nor the small detail that no convictions have been entered.

Nice one RR, you take the prize as the uber spin doctor.

Oooh, that one's gonna leave a mark.

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Race Radio]

Bagster babble

Let us know when you actually answer the question. Novtizky is waiting for your approval before he moves forward.

 

[Race Radio]

Oooh, that one's gonna leave a mark.

Game. Set. Match.

More like babble, deflect, and avoid.

 

[ChrisE]

More like babble, deflect, and avoid.

His point is that just because somebody is being investigated does not mean he/she actually committed a crime or will be charged or will be found guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". You seem to have missed a few steps in how this all works.

 

[Benotti69]

.....

Having said that I have seen nothing from any reliable source that Armstrong is the prime target.

you haven't seen anything as you continue to state believe the uniballer has done nothing wrong.

your posts iterate that you believe this to be a witch hunt yet all the evidence that is available to joe public puts a huge arrow over the uniballers head pointing down saying doper, but you ignore it. jeez the mainstream media has published numerous articles alleging this and not one case has been brought for defamation, this from mr Litigation....

as for uniballer being the prime target, the people interviewed all professionally related in some way indicate that he is the target, probably along with others that he is closely tied to financially but again you think there is no evidence, in fact your postings are becoming ever more thinly disguised as similar to other fanboys on here.

 

[scribe]

His point is that just because somebody is being investigated does not mean he/she actually committed a crime or will be charged or will be found guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". You seem to have missed a few steps in how this all works.

That logic doesn't fit his view of the world.

He has been asked repeatedly what the crimes are (since he knows all this stuff), and he has yet to answer what they are. I suppose he is banking on the Bondsian Perjury method.