What's Wrong with Van Garderen?

[maxmartin]

Thought he put in a pretty good performance today. Was never going to beat the in-form GC guys, but a good ride nonetheless. Showed he still has the talent/potential and doesn't have such low confidence at this point that he isn't going to even try.

I would not call it very good in TJVG's standard. He is supposed to be a GC guy with strong ability in flat and hilly ITT. Top 5 in this sort of ITT is a good result for him. It might not just be TJ's own problem, the whole BMC camp is in sort of massive under-performance. It seems former SKY coach now BMC consultant Bobby Julich did not have any substantial impact on team performance. BMC guys are top paid professionals, their ToF performance certainly does not justify their salary.

 

[Afrank]

I would not call it very good in TJVG's standard. He is supposed to be a GC guy with strong ability in flat and hilly ITT. Top 5 in this sort of ITT is a good result for him. It might not just be TJ's own problem, the whole BMC camp is in sort of massive under-performance. It seems former SKY coach now BMC consultant Bobby Julich did not have any substantial impact on team performance. BMC guys are top paid professionals, their ToF performance certainly does not justify their salary.

It was a good performance for his current level of fitness. The guys he was beaten by we can pretty safely assume are all in their peak right now. And there are only like 3, maybe 4, guys that beat him that I think he could probably beat or come close to beating if he was in form.

Agree on BMC under performing, They need to just start sending all their top guys in breaks and try their luck for stage wins at this point.

 

[TheBean]

There's nothing wrong with him, it's just that too much was expected of him. Last year he came 5th, but before that 82nd (although he would've been 22) so last year was probably a big over achievement.

He had a good TT today.

I don't think anything is "wrong" with him at all. Winning the ToC is a good achievement for a season for a rider of any age. Especially so for a young rider. BMC is a USA based team, and Tejay won one of the two major tours in the USA.

The reasons for not meeting pre-race hype in the Tour are many. The route, being over-hyped, the competition being very strong this year, trying to double peak, etc.

Who knows? Maybe he is simply fighting off the common cold. Any of us who have ridden a lot of milesin a few weeks know that a simple cold can make for a rough day on the bike. His quote from the day in the Pyrenees that he "doesn't know why he had no strength" could be explained by a cold.

To question his motivation, tenacity, desire, or anything else like tht just seems a bit premature.

 

[maxmartin]

It was a good performance for his current level of fitness. The guys he was beaten by we can pretty safely assume are all in their peak right now. And there are only like 3, maybe 4, guys that beat him that I think he could probably beat or come close to beating if he was in form.

Agree on BMC under performing, They need to just start sending all their top guys in breaks and try their luck for stage wins at this point.

for his current level yes

 

[Christian]

Nice to see him back today! Wtf was wrong with Evans though, did he ride backwards?!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Nice to see him back today! Wtf was wrong with Evans though, did he ride backwards?!

Tanked the stage, wants to win one later.
Good decision.

 

[Christian]

Tanked the stage, wants to win one later.
Good decision.

Ah yes, I just saw that. Probably good decision indeed!

 

[Rip:30]

He just had a kid. He's a cocky 24 year old.

 

[Angliru]

I think it could be likely he mistimed his peak slightly. Timed it more around Cali then the Tour.

But a large part of it, sadly, I think could be that he isn't quite as strong yet as his result last year seemed to indicate. The absence of mountains, excess TT km's, and Sky's steady tempo climbing did play to his advantage last year.

(But I am holding out hope that he'll be back, this isn't the last we will see of him in GT's.)

I would hope that after finishing 5th in the gc at last year's Tour that his peak isn't finishing 2nd on a fairly minor (compared to the world tour week long stage races) week long stage to a rider from US domestic team rider, albeit a Colombian climbing specialist.

 

[movingtarget]

Ah yes, I just saw that. Probably good decision indeed!

Whether or not it makes a difference is another thing but it's worth a try. Otherwise BMC take nothing from the race at all and they thought last year was bad with a fifth and a seventh plus the White jersey ! If Evans is getting dropped on a Cat 2 climb on the Gap stage it does not look too good but I would like to see him try something. BMC should have convinced him to ride the Vuelta instead where he had more recovery time from the Giro but Evans would never miss the Tour anyway.

 

[Afrank]

I would hope that after finishing 5th in the gc at last year's Tour that his peak isn't finishing 2nd on a fairly minor (compared to the world tour week long stage races) week long stage to a rider from US domestic team rider, albeit a Colombian climbing specialist.

Um...no, his peak there was to win the race overall, which he did. And the stage he finished 2nd to Acevedo in, he actually chose to just keep a steady tempo when Acevedo attacked for the win and not go to his limit by following and risk blowing up. He knew he was distancing the guys that could be a threat in the TT (and thus a threat for the overall).

 

[maxmartin]

Um...no, his peak there was to win the race overall, which he did. And the stage he finished 2nd to Acevedo in, he actually chose to just keep a steady tempo when Acevedo attacked for the win and not go to his limit by following and risk blowing up. He knew he was distancing the guys that could be a threat in the TT (and thus a threat for the overall).

he should just ignore ToC, or use it as a training ride. TOC is an awkward time to peak for Tour purpose. But most likely he will try to defend his title. Maybe he aspire to be next Levi.

 

[Afrank]

he should just ignore ToC, or use it as a training ride. TOC is an awkward time to peak for Tour purpose. But most likely he will try to defend his title. Maybe he aspire to be next Levi.

God I hope he doesn't. I would hate to see him become a rider that can only win the US races.

Agree with you also, now that he's got a win in California he should focus his peak more around Dauphine/Swiss and the Tour next year.

 

[Angliru]

Jesus christ, we get it already, you guys think he's overrated. It doesn't matter that the the people he beat during his peak happened to be Rogers and US domestic riders. The point is he was in top form for that race because it was the race he wanted to win. And he was unable to maintain that form through to the Tour.

At his peak in such a weak field he couldn't even win the queen stage of ToC, losing to domestic climbing specialist. The only thing that him from even humiliation was that riding being Colombian.

 

[maxmartin]

At his peak in such a weak field he couldn't even win the queen stage of ToC, losing to domestic climbing specialist. The only thing that him from even humiliation was that riding being Colombian.

True to that, but like I said it might not just be his problem, the whole BMC seemed to be in some sort of happy camp receiving huge salary while training at minimal level (according to some rumor).

 

[Afrank]

At his peak in such a weak field he couldn't even win the queen stage of ToC, losing to domestic climbing specialist. The only thing that him from even humiliation was that riding being Colombian.

So F***ing what? Once again, his goal was the overall. Acevedo and Konig got the jump on BMC, and Tejay just kept tempo and let his team keep pacing him up the climb. He knew they weren't a threat to his overall, there was no need for him to attack and try to bridge up to them to get the stage win.

 

[jaylew]

He's certainly been off-form in this Tour but yeah, he's been slightly overrated by some due to his 5th last year in a race whose course and pacing suited him. That said, I think he's capable of a GT podium on the right course with the right field. He's young and could absolutely improve. We'll find out in a few years if he goes Nibali or Gesink.

 

[karlboss]

I think form wise he is a little below where he was last year, his TT showed he is actually not that bad, just the field this year is stronger and are climbing faster and the combination killed him early. If he goes to the Vuelta without putting pressure on himself he may surprise himself.

 

[Angliru]

Um...no, his peak there was to win the race overall, which he did. And the stage he finished 2nd to Acevedo in, he actually chose to just keep a steady tempo when Acevedo attacked for the win and not go to his limit by following and risk blowing up. He knew he was distancing the guys that could be a threat in the TT (and thus a threat for the overall).

He was dropped on the queen stage to put it simply by a domestic climbing specialist. Him stating that he decided to ride at his own tempo to avoid blowing up doesn't soften the impact of getting dropped. If his climbing is that suspect he has little chance of seriously contending in any grand tour. He should focus week-long stage races.

Still though I'm inclined to agree that either he's inflicted with some type of illness or he came into the Tour a bit too confident and when he failed to meet to his expectations he went into a funk that lasted for a week.
His getting in a break is good sign as stated previously.

 

[Afrank]

He was dropped on the queen stage to put it simply by a domestic climbing specialist. Him stating that he decided to ride at his own tempo to avoid blowing up doesn't soften the impact of getting dropped. If his climbing is that suspect he has little chance of seriously contending in any grand tour. He should focus week-long stage races.

First stage he decided not to go deep with the whole race still ahead, on Diablo kept a steady tempo with his team instead of trying to bridge up to Konig and Acevedo when they went away. I don't think getting beat by a domestic climbing specialist means anything in these cases.

 

[Angliru]

So F***ing what? Once again, his goal was the overall. Acevedo and Konig got the jump on BMC, and Tejay just kept tempo and let his team keep pacing him up the climb. He knew they weren't a threat to his overall, there was no need for him to attack and try to bridge up to them to get the stage win.

You really need to take a breath if you can't express yourself without blowing a gasket. What is your problem? Is Tejay a relative of yours for you to be taking this so personal?

 

[Afrank]

You really need to take a breath if you can't express yourself without blowing a gasket. What is your problem? Is Tejay a relative of yours for you to be taking this so personal?

Not taking it personal and not blowing a gasket at all, it's just annoying the manner in which people on this forum talk about TJVG at times.

 

[wwabbit]

Not taking it personal and not blowing a gasket at all, it's just annoying the manner in which people on this forum talk about TJVG at times.

I sympathize with TJVG definitely. Fortunately for him though he doesn't get hit as hard as Froome does in this forum lol

 

[gustienordic]

Not taking it personal and not blowing a gasket at all, it's just annoying the manner in which people on this forum talk about TJVG at times.

I blame Phil & Paul for this one. I remember them hyping him so much back in the day, starting when he was still at HTC and got third at the Dauphine. I remember hearing so much about how he was the next greatest American rider and was going to dominate GTs in the next 4-5 years. He just isn't going to be that rider I don't think. If he wouldn't have had so much hype I think it would be a completely different story. Take Talansky for example- Yes, TJ has better parcours than Talansky, but many people rate Talansky as a bigger talent. I don't know if he's getting the same hype from Phil and Paul because I switched to watching Eurosport. However, since I haven't been subjected to Talansky being so hyped, I like him quite a bit more. Also seems less cocky than TJ.

So to summarize: I think many people dislike TJ/think he is massively overhyped because the way Phil and Paul have depicted him versus the reality. Right now he is much more of a tempo climber- so a perfect Sky domestique.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Not in form due to early season & TOC peak. Otherwise nothing wrong i believe. Too young as of now, will improve later on. But Top 10 realistic goal for him. Can podium under specific circumstances. Stage racer and therefore will always get dropped in the high mountains by explosive climbers.