when did we start supporting teams instead of riders?

[Fus087]

I mean the big leagues.

Fair point when regarding Amador. Although he's Costa Rica's best bet to do it.

But France? 4th, 10th & 11th + white jersey in the Tour, 4th & 12th in the Giro, 6th, 7th & 10th in Dauphiné, 6th in Paris-Nice, 2nd in RvV, 7th in MSR, 11th in P-R, 5th in G-W...
It's not like the days of Anquetil & Poulidor, but then it'll never be again.

And in some of these races, the Frenchmen could also have won.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Chapeau on the topic.

To make my contribution, I guess I'm guilty of this . I don't intend for it to happen though. What happens is I develop an interest in several riders on the team, and eventually grow to like that team or it just appears I like that team. For instance, I'm a big Garmin-Cervelo fan; I admit my interest in them is a bit nationalistic, but I also admire several of their riders, especially this year (just hate JV's sideburns). I'm also fan of liquigas and want to see their riders succeed, but that's because, since living there briefly while in college, I developed an affinity for all things Italian (and their colors are better than Lampre).

I wouldn't say team interest trumps rider interest though. I was pulling for Cadel this year at the Tour, but don't give a crap about how well BMC performs this season.

 

[Nielsa]

I'm also fan of liquigas and want to see their riders succeed, but that's because, since living there briefly while in college, I developed an affinity for all things Italian (and their colors are better than Lampre).

Going to be a hell of a team to cheer on from spring to autumn, if they can keep Sagan.

 

[Carols]

I'm old school, I support riders regardless of their team. I'll root for a rider/riders for overall GC while rooting for a different rider on individual stages. And watching an exciting race is much more fun no matter who wins vs who I may be rooting for. I have no favorite team, never have and most likely never will. There are teams I respect more then others but that's about the extent of it.

 

[RedheadDane]

When did we start supporting riders instead of racing?

Good point!

About 120 years ago

Jeez! You must be old!

 

[icefire]

There has been a move toward what are de facto national teams. There is Sky, Leopard, Green Edge, Astana, Katusha, and Euskaltel. Add the jingoistic types to the complete muppets who become superfans of the team their favorite rider is on and there appears to be a good percentage of fans that root for teams.

Vaughters must be quite happy. This is what he hopes the sport becomes.

Vaughters must be akin to José Mourinho: riders and team are just an instrument at the service of the DS, which is all that matters.

 

[TRDean]

First and foremost..I am a fan of cycling! I closely follow Kenny van Hummel (for my own reasons) and now I am following the young American Ben King too. They would be my favorites. But I am also a huge fan of Skil. I like the team, their philosophy, and how they operate. I will be a fan of Skil until they are no more. To be honest...there are very very few riders who I really don't like...

 

[Gingerale]

interesting thoughts on this thread....

My support is fleeting, I have riders I like/dislike however this can change in an instant and I’ve often cheered for a rider I ‘dislike’ simply because he is the one attacking/energizing the race. For me it doesn’t really matter which team he rides for and certainly not what nationality he is but rather how he’s rode the race.

my experience also: i'll cheer for a rider "attacking/energizing" the race, even levi, if it ever happens! so of the races i've watched, euskaltel-euskadi would be a favorite team if i have one...so far. definitely it's more about performance of a rider not a team. i have yet to become a fan of lead out trains. the few times i cheered for cavendish, it was when he had no organized lead out train.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Interesting question. I randomly dipped back in history to find how the TdF teams looked in 1980.

Only 11 nations were represented, 75% of riders were from France or Belgium. No Italians or Italian teams.
All 16 Spanish riders were on one of the two Spanish Teams. The Dutch team had 9 Dutch riders, all the other teams were French or Belgian.
Only 3 of the 39 Belgian competitors rode on teams that weren't Belgian and only 3 of the 48 French riders were on non-French teams.

Maybe teams weren't that relevant when it came to who to support?

Anyway, it seems to me that historically almost all teams have had a strong nationalist bias when it comes to recruitment; and that recent years are the aberration with a return to the norm happening now. And of course because top tier riders now come from all over the world, teams are spread more thinly amongst nations e.g. 1 PT team for the French and Belgium struggling to hold on to 2. So the ties between nationality and team will become closer, hence people will support teams as a proxy for their nation.

Or is that just bollox?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am a fan of riders first and teams second, but I am a fan of both.

I became a fan of Unzué's teams through his teams being filled with riders I liked, and as a result of following those riders came to be familiar with the other riders on the team, and then now many of those riders that turned me into a fan of the team are gone, they have in places been replaced by other riders I like, and then they've suffered such extreme bad luck and had such a terrible year that I don't think anybody can begrudge them success; to whit - they lost Joaquím Rodríguez, a rider I really like, but signed Juan Mauricio Soler, who I also really like, and then Valverde got banned, but Tondó signed. I was a fan of Soler and Tondó long before they signed with Caisse/Movistar, and I remain a fan of J-Rod now he's at Katyusha.

The thing is, some teams simply have a certain aesthetic or a certain attitude that makes us like or dislike them. The DS/manager shapes the team around his aims (or which aims are available to him). So HTC, for example, become a loathsome, hated team for me, though they have some riders on the team who I quite like and won't begrudge their results; Farnese Vini/ISD-NERI, on the other hand, are a team whose entire philosophy for about three years was based entirely around animating races and making things more exciting, and therefore they are a team I like and enjoy. On the other hand, now that they're losing Visconti they will probably crystallize around Guardini and turn into a team that no longer sticks 4 of its 6 riders in attacks and turns a race that would otherwise have been a Greipel parade (Tour or Turkey 2010) into a half-watchable event, but instead contributes to the dull racing that I dislike.

Teams in cycling are still transient, evanescent things; they could fall apart and disappear in the blink of an eye. But how riders behave is shaped by their bosses, and who the team signs is shaped by that too. If you find a number of the riders you like riding for the same team you will like them; if you find a team who catch your attention doing things you like, you will pay attention to those riders and become fans of those riders.

 

[Angliru]

The one team that I root for over all others is Euskaltel Euskadi. Other than that I am quite partial to first and foremost the Spaniards, followed by the South American riders and then the little climber dudes. Some riders just have a particular aura about them that appeals to me regardless of what their attributes might be. I prefer riders that let their actions do the talking for them with Gibo and Cipo being the exceptions who both talked big and at the same time carried big sticks to back up their talk. I think Gibo was just a bit cranky which for some reason made me like him even more.

 

[RedheadDane]

Honestly I don't know if my I just support everyone staunce makes me seem like some kind of person who always sides with the winner. But hey! Life's too short too be disappointed everytime "your team" or "your player" doesn't win. Especially in cycling where there are so many who can win instead of just either-one two teams/players, (of course it may also be a tie.)

 

[Angliru]

Honestly I don't know if my I just support everyone staunce makes me seem like some kind of person who always sides with the winner. But hey! Life's too short too be disappointed everytime "your team" or "your player" doesn't win. Especially in cycling where there are so many who can win instead of just either-one two teams/players, (of course it may also be a tie.)

It just makes the rare times that they win such a joyous occasion!

 

[RedheadDane]

Yeah. I guess...

But to use P-R as an example; sure! I was hoping Lars Bak would win it! But Summie's win was just pure... well... pure win!

 

[El Pistolero]

My boys usually deliver frequently like Phil or Contador. Except Boonen who fails miserably most of the time, but when he wins I'm more happier than when Contador wins. Would find it boring if I was for everyone. I need some cyclists I don't like, though that dislike(too strong word, but for the lack of a better one) can change over the season. I feel only pity for Pozzato now for example

 

[Moviefan1203]

I root for nationality more than anything else. I back the American riders although there are certainly riders I really like that aren't American. But, without question, my very favorite riders are the ones that are American.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Add the jingoistic types to the complete muppets who become superfans of the team their favorite rider is on and there appears to be a good percentage of fans that root for teams.

I do hate this word, or at least the use of it on this forum. The Cambridge dictionary defines it as "the extreme belief that your own country is always best, which is often shown in enthusiastic support for a war against another country". I'd say that I've never seen this behaviour exhibited on this forum, yet it gets bandied about frequently.

It's perfectly normal, rational behaviour to support riders from your own country - in fact human beings have evolved to show tribal and territorial behaviours.

I support the British riders, pretty much full stop. I like what Team Sky are trying to do for British cycling, but I wouldn't go as far to say that I want one of their foreign riders to win. I admire teams and riders, but if the Brits can't win, I couldn't really care less who does. As long as the racing's good and it's not an Aussie

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's perfectly normal, rational behaviour to support riders from your own country - in fact human beings have evolved to show tribal and territorial behaviours.

Even when a lot of those boundaries are purely arbitrary?

We like to pick favourites based on a set of criteria. For many a shared identity, be it national, ethnic or religious, is part of that. Fair enough. But it seems to me to be a little narrow-minded and blinkered to make that the only criterion in support. Surely there are people out there who you like, perhaps from interviews, or because they brought great excitement to a particularly memorable race, or did a great job in support of one of your favourites? Are there no riders in the péloton that you like, that make you happy when they win, that don't have a British flag next to their name?

 

[El Pistolero]

Even when a lot of those boundaries are purely arbitrary?

We like to pick favourites based on a set of criteria. For many a shared identity, be it national, ethnic or religious, is part of that. Fair enough. But it seems to me to be a little narrow-minded and blinkered to make that the only criterion in support. Surely there are people out there who you like, perhaps from interviews, or because they brought great excitement to a particularly memorable race, or did a great job in support of one of your favourites? Are there no riders in the péloton that you like, that make you happy when they win, that don't have a British flag next to their name?

Every country is artificial and borders are merely so because of coincidence. Belgium would probably not exist for example if it wasn't for the Polish revolution in 1830.

Or even better: the Balkan. Those countries are as artificial as Bjarne Riis in '96. People are proud of their history even if it's made up(and most of it is) and history as a discipline owes a lot to nationalism.

 

[Angliru]

Even when a lot of those boundaries are purely arbitrary?

We like to pick favourites based on a set of criteria. For many a shared identity, be it national, ethnic or religious, is part of that. Fair enough. But it seems to me to be a little narrow-minded and blinkered to make that the only criterion in support. Surely there are people out there who you like, perhaps from interviews, or because they brought great excitement to a particularly memorable race, or did a great job in support of one of your favourites? Are there no riders in the péloton that you like, that make you happy when they win, that don't have a British flag next to their name?

Speaking of interviews, I had really no opinion of Christian Vandevelde until I first saw/heard him in an interview. After that I couldn't help but root for the guy. I probably wouldn't been a supporter anyway after how he rode the Tour with an injured back in support of Ryder Hesjedal and still got a top 10.
His interviews are always insightful and completely from the heart. He'd make an excellent broadcaster if he so chose to follow that path after his retirement, whenever that may be.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Even when a lot of those boundaries are purely arbitrary?

In my case, hardly arbitrary. My country's an island and has been for millenia. And my country has been a sovereignty for centuries. My family tree can be traced back for many of them. Hardly surprising, therefore, that I feel British and want those from my own tribe and territory to do well. I'd be disappointed if anybody questioned my right to do so. Similarly though, if you feel more part of a race or religion, or another group, that's cool. As I said, we're programmed to want to feel part of a group, and have developed that over time, because of the benefits that brings us.

Of course, there's lots of riders I 'like'. I like their style of riding or they come across as good guys. But I don't know them personally and don't feel an affinity towards them because they choose a particular method to win a race. But if you do, then great.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Even when a lot of those boundaries are purely arbitrary?

We like to pick favourites based on a set of criteria. For many a shared identity, be it national, ethnic or religious, is part of that. Fair enough. But it seems to me to be a little narrow-minded and blinkered to make that the only criterion in support. Surely there are people out there who you like, perhaps from interviews, or because they brought great excitement to a particularly memorable race, or did a great job in support of one of your favourites? Are there no riders in the péloton that you like, that make you happy when they win, that don't have a British flag next to their name?

It's also worth considering the size of the cycling contingent from a country. Some countries like Spain, France or Belgium have too many riders to focus purely on nationality. Others like Norway, Canada or Japan have too few. But for those nationalities that are in between, it's possible to get familiar with all the top tier riders and easier to support them and only them.

Personally I'm delighted when anyone from Sky does well. It's interesting that while Cavendish was setting about rewriting the record books, Britain took little or no notice; but now Sky are getting results, it's noticable how much higher profile all cycling has become in the media. Which has to be good for the future of cycling in this country.

 

[hrotha]

I understand rooting for your compatriots is normal, but how is it rational?

 

[RedheadDane]

We like to pick favourites based on a set of criteria.

Well... I do like DZ partly because he's crazy. And I'm crazy... Not that crazy though. Don't think that's even humanly possible!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In my case, hardly arbitrary. My country's an island and has been for millenia. And my country has been a sovereignty for centuries. My family tree can be traced back for many of them. Hardly surprising, therefore, that I feel British and want those from my own tribe and territory to do well. I'd be disappointed if anybody questioned my right to do so. Similarly though, if you feel more part of a race or religion, or another group, that's cool. As I said, we're programmed to want to feel part of a group, and have developed that over time, because of the benefits that brings us.

Of course, there's lots of riders I 'like'. I like their style of riding or they come across as good guys. But I don't know them personally and don't feel an affinity towards them because they choose a particular method to win a race. But if you do, then great.

I'm not questioning your right to support people for being from your home country - but your previous statement was that you didn't care who won if they weren't British, or at least that was the implication I took from it, which is why I queried. It seems to me that "are they from my homeland: yes/no" is an incredibly bipolar view to take, if no other criteria whatsoever are being applied.

Do you have a hierarchy of which British riders you'd prefer to see win, along the same lines as when picking those non-British riders you like? For example, I don't much care for many of the British riders in the péloton, but I'll always be happier for someone like Downing or Stannard to win than Millar or Cavendish, for a variety of reasons.