When did you realize LA was a cheat?

[BYOP88]

The 1999 TdF for me, I thought the 1998 Vuelta was just one of those odd blips that happens in cycling from time to time, where riders have a 1 off performance and then suck again. But the TT in 1999 when he destroyed Olano after never showing anything like that before was the start. Then some of the mountain stages where he killed off the 'better' climbers and made them look like newbies on a bike was more like PCM than real life.

 

[Apollonius]

It's not cheating if everybody is doing it.

Lance enhanced but he didn't cheat. Hanging on to the back of cars - that's cheating, boosting your own body's natural biological functions isn't.

If I had my way doping would be legalised and nobody would unjustly be labelled a cheat.

 

[hfer07]

based on what had happened before 99 with the Festina scandal & the Riis show-it was evident that everybody was doping-however-I did "naively" believe LA had won the tour "clean-ER" in comparison to his rivals-so at the time I didn't condemn him at all-then when the "Ferrari link" was made public- I finally realized he was just another doper-even as years went on & more details about his mobster-like empire were revealed, I really started to despise him...

 

[Apollonius]

That's a real bright suggestion there.

And leave everyone push the boundaries and risk their lives in the process.

I don't know what else to say that rubbish.

They risk their lives when they descend down mountain roads at 70kph and nobody forces them to ride just like nobody forces them to dope.

They all dope anyway - if it were legal they'll find a natural limit as how far they can push it before the cons negate the pros of doping. Obviously some would push it too far but then some push it too far on descents and like I said: Nobody forces them.

As it stands now 99% of people whom post in the clinic only give two ****s about doping as a convenient excuse to bash Lance Armstrong. If it wasn't doping no doubt he'd be accused of something else.

 

[Poursuivant]

It's not cheating if everybody is doing it.

Lance enhanced but he didn't cheat. Hanging on to the back of cars - that's cheating, boosting your own body's natural biological functions isn't.

If I had my way doping would be legalised and nobody would unjustly be labelled a cheat.

Firstly, "everyone" wasn't doing it.

Secondly, you do realise that if ALL competitors doped, it would be unfair, as it works better for some athletes than it does others, don't you?

I am glad you won't have your way.

 

[trailrunner]

It's not cheating if everybody is doing it.

Sure it is: if it's against the rules, it's cheating. Simple as that.

If I had my way...

But you don't. End of discussion.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

It's not cheating if everybody is doing it.

Lance enhanced but he didn't cheat. Hanging on to the back of cars - that's cheating, boosting your own body's natural biological functions isn't.

If I had my way doping would be legalised and nobody would unjustly be labelled a cheat.

Ridiculous.

BTW: Wrong thread. To post your obscure theories, you surely would find some threads. Just go to advanced search...

 

[ggusta]

When I found out he was a pro cyclist, same as any other pro cyclist.

We need a poll for who thinks they are all dopers. Maybe break it down by %. I would be in the 95-100% doped crowd.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Almost everyone at that time was on EPO, so that was no surprise. Every rider had a HTC of 49. So that was no surprise. When his Ferrari link came to surface the real evidence was there. You just cannot hide from that. Must say I didnt even have internet back then so the only news I got was the mainstream omerta media.

 

[RichWalk]

For me it came through the vast information and increased immediacy of the web. In the late 80's and 90's I was racing, not particuarly well! But even then doping or even the rummours of it were almost unheard of, even amongst the guys I trained with.
If you look at it objectively, the Lance era (error?) just reflects society and capitalism straining at the leash of profitabilty, at any cost.

Despite still loving the sport I certainly don't view it as the same one that drove me to get on a bike day in day out, come rain or shine.................damn shame, but as they says 'that's progress' folks

 

[Nick C.]

Somewhere between the '99 test results, the Andreu testimony and Puerto. Then seeing how he was a patholigical liar about everything. I came into cycling @ 2004 so was all into getting DVDs reading his and other books. It seemed that none of the key incidents he harped on in his books happened the way he described (rode the Galibier with my chain rubbing ... sans mention of crashing into Heras on the descent) and any failure was always something else (both TT losses, overgearings and the heat when you see him warming up outside for other Tour TTs and see other riders having the white traces around their lips without having it effect them for a week). Dumping Cheryl Crow shortly after she revealed or claimed to have cancer in part because she wanted a family (he of course has since somehow had a kid with his girlfriend). Retiring to spend time with his kids and not miss the "special" moments and then being all over page 6 with one been around the block B-D list actress or another (kate Hudson, an Olson twin), the comeback is for cancer awareness, let the strongest guy lead the team (then try to do so after being 4th in the porologue on his own team).

 

[BroDeal]

I suspected something was fishy when he could hang with Keith Richards without too much strain. I did not buy into the weight loss excuse because Keith had taken thinness to a whole new level but Lance could still keep up.

 

[WinterRider]

As someone who watched the TdF as a kid in the 80's thanks to Lemond and Bauer, but then stopped watching (they stopped showing it in Canada for the most part), it was only the story of Lance that brought me back in 2004. And I left again after puerto, and again only came back for Lance 2.0. So thanks for that Lance.

As for the poll, I voted the Landis letter, but really I was convinced by reading the clinic. In fact, it is documented when I changed my mind in this post: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=188524#post188524

It took the entire winter between the 2009 and 2010 reading clinic posts and sifting through all the garbage and trolling, but the evidence was all there. The Landis letter was freeing for me because it allowed me to enjoy cycling for what it was, rather than for Lance.

Now I actually race myself (Go Cat5), and love watching the pros race year round.

 

[ianfra]

You have to remember that the Clinic populated by people who seem to want LA and others to be dopers. It feeds their reason to be here. Having said that, although there appears to be a mountain of evidence against LA you have to remember that he has not yet been convicted. I for one find him a thoroughly distasteful individual with an apparent lack of personal and social skills. He also comes over as a control freak who has no respect for this beautiful sport of ours. If he is convicted I will be very happy because I don't personally like him (though I've never met him) but I will be sad for the damage he has done to our sport. I don't trust 'evidence' that leaks into the public domain, I don't trust many of the statements made by posters in the Clinic - I find many of these posts quite freakish. Having said that they appear to be allowed to make these statements so I guess its up to the moderators.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't trust evidence.

Yeah, we figured that out.

 

[slowoldman]

I admit I was a little late to the party. I think I "knew" I just really wanted to believe. I voted 2005, but if I had to admit I had suspicions earlier. I was a huge Armstrong fan, loved the story and the cancer fighting. Yeah, I was duped I bought into it hard because I had lost so many of my family to cancer and I really wanted all of the "myth" to be true. Now I just want the truth.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Dignify a response to this 'POLL' shows 'U'R/Full/Of?Crap

He hasn't been found guilty; EPO wasn't banned in '99; PERIOD

 

[Cerberus]

He hasn't been found guilty; EPO wasn't banned in '99; PERIOD

Not yet; Yes it was, just not detectable; COMMA

 

[D-Queued]

He hasn't been found guilty; EPO wasn't banned in '99; PERIOD

What turnip truck?

Please refer to the Festina affair in 1998 and the suspensions of Christophe Moreau, Laurent Brochard and Armin Meier for admitting to taking EPO.

Dave.

 

[RichWalk]

I suspected something was fishy when he could hang with Keith Richards without too much strain. I did not buy into the weight loss excuse because Keith had taken thinness to a whole new level but Lance could still keep up.

strangely enough Brad brought up Keiths name and smack in a Tour press conference, the boy knows his Stones........

 

[Mishrak]

I didn't really start to buy into the fact that he was doping until Floyd came out in 2010. Even then, I resisted it. But as I started seeing more and more positives come out, and then started looking at the facts and the doping history of the sport, it became impossible to ignore. I also started cycling as a hobbyist, so I knew how hard the sport was (to some degree).

The one thing that really tipped the scales for me was all the doping positives of the other top 10 GC contenders during all of Lance's tour wins. To beat all of those guys who were busted/confessed dopers clean is certifiably impossible.

And then I saw the '99 Sestriere climb. It made me sick. It's still really hard for me to watch any vintage Tour footage of climbing. No one climbs that way today, and these guys were all out of the saddle for ridiculous stretches of time and all but sprinting up that climb.

There you have it.

 

[Oldman]

While he was still and amateur amid the reports of Eddie B injecting the Olympic team...and after Natz level juniors spoke of several team members caught with internal testing. One of those conducted an interview with CBS admitting his usage during his teammate days, one survived this year's Tour with approriately mediocre results and the other is in the sights of USADA. There were more who ended up suing the coaches but that's just another rumor, right?

 

[No_Balls]

In 1998 and my conviction drew stronger when he won the Tour the next year. Remember this was the guy who abadoned the Tour in -96 due to "low morale". Some two years later (and after his cancer) this guy placed 4th in the Vuelta after practically going up from his hospital bed and it didnt work out for me. I began debating against him very early and many years later it paid off. Of course after being ridiculed many times.

 

[buckle]

When his marriage broke up

Walked out on his church going wife - guilty conscience.

 

[thehog]

Cheat? I think he's clean. 600 tests. Never tested positive.