When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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May 26, 2010
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zigmeister said:
^This

"VN: You’re absolutely right. The problem is, I tried different guys, and nobody would touch it … yet."


The Clinic, the joke journalist, the "experts" like Ashenden (who learned all he knows from Floyd..rofl.).

Let's bring it on USADA and the paid experts.

Get it over with and bust him already.
Strange how VN didn't name anyone any who refused. :rolleyes:

Werent VN big fans of Lance?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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131313 said:
It's probably worth noting the originator of that quote--Phil Zacijek. Not that I don't think Horner was jacked on Saturn, but context is important. Phil was trying to avoid the wrath of Decanio so he was eager to sell out the biggest fish, who at the time was Horner.

Honestly I don't even know if I believe the story as he told it. Saturn already had a drug connection, and it wasn't Horner (and you know this). Webcor is a different story...

Zacijek did the same thing with Nate Weiss to avoid bad press on rideclean.org. Point being, he's not the most reliable source.
Completely agree, which is why I presented it without comment. While the claim is interesting the Zacijek/Decanio combo is not one I would put much stock on.......Levi however, I would listen to Levi.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
But Horner is right, why dont the cycling media pay a specialist to analyse Horner's numbers?
Media doesn't actually act on anything they just report on things from nice chair or sofa. If they actually acted on something they'd be doing investigative reporting which pretty much hasn't existed for a few decades or at least not in cycling.
 
May 26, 2010
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ElChingon said:
Media doesn't actually act on anything they just report on things from nice chair or sofa. If they actually acted on something they'd be doing investigative reporting which pretty much hasn't existed for a few decades or at least not in cycling.
I think the media has been convinced that the sport is on the precipice and exposing Horner, Wigans, Froome or Nibali might just be the final positive that sends it over the edge forever. But it aint hard to convince the sports media to go along with the omerta.
 
Benotti69 said:
I think the media has been convinced that the sport is on the precipice and exposing Horner, Wigans, Froome or Nibali might just be the final positive that sends it over the edge forever. But it aint hard to convince the sports media to go along with the omerta.
Of course, you may be completely wrong about everything. While it's something you can't possibly contemplate, it's something I find really easy to believe.
 
Benotti69 said:
I think the media has been convinced that the sport is on the precipice and exposing Horner, Wigans, Froome or Nibali might just be the final positive that sends it over the edge forever. . .
Nah, they subbed that out to the Clinic. Why pay for something when a real hater will gladly do it for free.
 
ElChingon said:
Media doesn't actually act on anything they just report on things from nice chair or sofa. If they actually acted on something they'd be doing investigative reporting which pretty much hasn't existed for a few decades or at least not in cycling.
I'm not sure if Damien Ressiot and Pierre Ballester would agree with this.
 
Catwhoorg said:
I applaud him for doing so.

I look forward to my armchair analysis, as well as those of others much more knowledgeable.

The mere fact he is doing so strongly suggests that there is nothing of significance in there.
I agree. I say now over to you Froome.

Whilst Horner's passport needs some in depth analysis there's nothing in there suggesting blatant or outright doping.

If other riders did the same it would be a nice comparison.

But well done to Horner for having the balls to release his passport.

Think it put a sock in some of his critics. Not sure it will get him a contract for 2014 though.
 
I assume the next tweet is, go Lance!?

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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-vents-frustrations-on-twitter
 
May 26, 2010
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Horner " doped with everything going and risking my health #ididthat "

Horner " defend Armstrong even though i would look like an idiot #ididthat "

all in my humble opinion as hrotha points out :D

hrotha said:
Careful, now you need to add "in my opinion" to your post or it'll get a [Citation needed] tag.
 
webvan said:
Not sure this is going to help with his contract situation as he's already known to be a bit "off the wall" and kinda broke the Omerta with that "blood data" release...
That wasn't breaking the omertà at all. It was neutral, or pro-omertà if he's doping and this is perceived as a way to convince the public opinion otherwise.

Omertà isn't about speaking about stuff or revealing trade secrets in general. It's about doping, and Horner was toeing the "cycling is clean now, look at this!" party line when he released his data.
 
hrotha said:
Omertà isn't about speaking about stuff or revealing trade secrets in general. It's about doping, and Horner was toeing the "cycling is clean now, look at this!" party line when he released his data.
So in essence, Omerta is having an opinion different that yours.

Whenever I see someone bring up the word omerta it seems to be defined by a cyclist voicing their own opinion and not that of the poster.
 
Parker said:
So in essence, Omerta is having an opinion different that yours.

Whenever I see someone bring up the word omerta it seems to be defined by a cyclist voicing their own opinion and not that of the poster.
No. What I said still applies even if Horner is telling the truth. He's not going against the party line, thus there's no omertà breaching. Whether the party line is actually the truth or not has no bearing on whether or not what Horner did consitutes "breaching the omertà".
 
hrotha said:
No. What I said still applies even if Horner is telling the truth. He's not going against the party line, thus there's no omertà breaching. Whether the party line is actually the truth or not has no bearing on whether or not what Horner did consitutes "breaching the omertà".
So in your mind, Omerta can include having an honest opinion about something that is true. That's not a code of silence and there is no party line - it's just what people think largely because it's probably true.

The word has lost all meaning due to overuse by people who never understood it's meaning in the first place.
 
Parker said:
So in your mind, Omerta can include having an honest opinion about something that is true. That's not a code of silence and there is no party line - it's just what people think largely because it's probably true.

The word has lost all meaning due to overuse by people who never understood it's meaning in the first place.
Hello? A little reading comprehension?

I'm arguing what he did didn't breach the omertà, and that it was either neutral or pro-omertà, depending on other factors. Webvan said he had breached the omertà by releasing his values.
 
It's breaking the omerta in the sense that it's not normally done, actually isn't the first time anyone releases data that covers a 5 year period? I'm pretty sure it's taken with a dim view in the "closed knit" cycling world where they like to keep their little secrets "in house"...with good reason as we keep finding.
 
hrotha said:
Hello? A little reading comprehension?

I'm arguing what he did didn't breach the omertà, and that it was either neutral or pro-omertà, depending on other factors. Webvan said he had breached the omertà by releasing his values.
I can read just fine. Particularly this bit

Omertà isn't about speaking about stuff or revealing trade secrets in general. It's about doping, and Horner was toeing the "cycling is clean now, look at this!" party line when he released his data.
You seem to clearly define what you think Omerta means. And that there is some sort of 'party line' as though there is some peloton whip keeping everyone's opinions in check. There isn't. There's just individuals who have their own opinions which are similar, probably because they have considerable basis in truth.

However, as is often the case, when this doesn't tally with the more fundamentalist opinions, a layer of conspiracy - in this case Omerta - needs to be added to explain it. Becuase god forbid that they might be wrong.

You use Omerta how you like, but personally, like the word 'wheelsucker' I automatically disregard opinions which use it as they are almost always pretty clueless.
 
webvan said:
It's breaking the omerta in the sense that it's not normally done, actually isn't the first time anyone releases data that covers a 5 year period? I'm pretty sure it's taken with a dim view in the "closed knit" cycling world where they like to keep their little secrets "in house"...with good reason as we keep finding.
I think they will welcome it. They can now point to Horner and say that his realeasing the values changed absolutely nobody's opinion of him. Those who thought he doped thought it showed he doped. Those who thought he was clean thought it showed he was clean. Those who didn't know got no nearer to knowing.

So cyclists can now, quite justifiably, say 'what's the point' when asked for data.
 
May 26, 2010
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Parker said:
I think they will welcome it. They can now point to Horner and say that his realeasing the values changed absolutely nobody's opinion of him. Those who thought he doped thought it showed he doped. Those who thought he was clean thought it showed he was clean. Those who didn't know got no nearer to knowing.

So cyclists can now, quite justifiably, say 'what's the point' when asked for data.
No one qualified too has yet analysed his data have they? There maybe a number of reasons for not doing that. Many of them legal. Not that Velonews has a good record, they were big supporters of Armstrong till the writing was on the wall.
 
Benotti69 said:
No one qualified too has yet analysed his data have they? There maybe a number of reasons for not doing that. Many of them legal. Not that Velonews has a good record, they were big supporters of Armstrong till the writing was on the wall.
Or maybe the experts aren't giving them the story they want.

And even if someone qualified gives their opinion it will change nobody's mind - regardless of what he says. Those he disagrees with will merely attack him, his credibility and his motives. Althernative spin will be provided. (Just look at the David Walsh thread for who this works).

Giving data to the public is pointless. The few that care have little interest in the truth. They want validation of their opinions.
 

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