When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[kingjr]

Why don't you ask sceptic? I would certainly be giving un-informed speculation which is pointless.

Sceptic, you're willing to answer?

 

[the sceptic]

Sceptic, you're willing to answer?

I really dont want to get dragged into this, as it didnt end well last time.

 

[kingjr]

I really dont want to get dragged into this, as it didnt end well last time.

As expected.

 

[Race Radio]

I see nothing in his/her post that says Danielson at Utah was equal to Horner at the Vuelta.

If there's "pretending" going on in this exchange it seems to be you pretending Sceptic said something he/she didn't.

Guess you missed this part

How is that any less suspicious than what Horner did in the vuelta last year?

Most read that as saying that Danielson performance is not "any less suspicious than what Horner did in the vuelta last year" which is absurd

 

[Oldman]

Danielson had a result he was proud of and likely "over the moon".
Horner passed Uranus on the way to his win.

 

[Granville57]

Horner passed Uranus on the way to his win.

Actually, I believe it was Nibali's, um, rear end, that he passed.

 

[red_flanders]

Guess you missed this part

Silly and pointless.

Most read that as saying that Danielson performance is not "any less suspicious than what Horner did in the vuelta last year" which is absurd

That's a far cry in my view from saying "the performances were equal" which is a measure of performance, not suspicion.

Hard to see them being taken for the same thing.

 

[Master50]

Nobody is saying Horner lacks talent. He has been followed by doping rumors for the majority of his career, so it is hard to imagine he would suddenly have his best years while competing clean. Especially given well-known biopassport loopholes.

In the Vuelta, Horner had a standard hgb decline of about 10%. Then a miraculous rebound to baseline levels, accompanied by a suppressed reticulocyte count. Now I'm no expert, but from what I've read, a 10% increase in hgb is worth maybe 6% in power.

This has been clearly stated and agreed upon by multiple experts in the field, who are much smarter than me.
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/63542182838/analysis-horners-biopassport-data
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ers-published-biological-passport-values.aspx

Nobody is saying Horner lacks talent, nobody is saying he dopes like Riis. We're just saying he dopes because there is a lot of evidence that is true. He might be a talented clean rider, but how would anybody ever know?

The only experts I pay attention to are the guys that bring the charges since the armchair experts don't seem to have any enforcement ability. I looked at his data and it is meaningless to me so I can hardly say X OR Z.
CH like just about every rider that was winning races during the 90s and 2000s has been embroiled in some sort of doping rumour but his performances in Europe showed more the gaps in doping between Europe and the rest of the world. If he was doping to win in the US and was getting shelled in Europe then he is also a not too smart doper. Of course it is all speculation about that past.
I was enjoying the age related conversation as I think it is an excellent topic for the clinic. I did not mention a few points of my own experience and it still perplexes me. This last winter my wife got me to go to the Gym to deal with the nagging old age complaints and my only exercise outlet is the bike. One machine I tend to favour is the leg press. In the mid 1980s I regularly weight trained for racing. I could leg press 750 pounds on a lift table. IE straight up and down. no incline. The table could not fall on you nor could the weights. Lie on your back and push. This year I managed about 400 pounds and that was so hard yet I can still get to 61 KPH now but was topped out at maybe 63 way back when I was 350 pounds stronger? My top speed is still pretty good but the acceleration is not quite as snappy as I really have to wind it up.? that 350 pounds is a lot of weight I cannot lift anymore. My power is definitely lower but my speed has not entirely suffered? Is it all technique? now I do have to say that previous to taking up bike racing at 29 I was not much of an exerciser so some of those early years were spent changing my body to adapt to hard and regular exercise and competition. My HC is 43 and my Vo2 is around 55 litres so no pro talent here. ! week at Colorado altitude did demonstrate that EPO would really help me a lot. Still not pro or even cat 2 but a lot. For 1 week after that trip I could ride at the front with the Thursday night guys. That experience I imagine is like EPO?

 

[sittingbison]

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I really dont want to get dragged into this, as it didnt end well last time.

chapeau

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Silly and pointless...

correctomundo

Gentle(wo)men,
I suggest you have search for "bickering" in the members banned thread before continuing this "discussion"

cheers
bison

 

[IzzyStradlin]

The only experts I pay attention to are the guys that bring the charges since the armchair experts don't seem to have any enforcement ability. I looked at his data and it is meaningless to me so I can hardly say X OR Z.

So when the doctor tells you to stop smoking, do you tell him that you only take that kind of advice from your mortician?

 

[Energy Starr]

Is there any reason Horner wouldn't dope? I think he dopes because there is no downside. What are they going to do, suspend him for two years....please. Ban him for life....really? Then he'll move into TV. Bans of any length only matter to guys who have a career that may last longer than another year or two. He'd almost be crazy not to prepare like he's never prepared in his life.

 

[Race Radio]

Silly and pointless.

Agreed, equating Danielson's performance at Utah with Horner's at the Vuelta was silly and pointless.

 

[blackcat]

i like chris

i have an oregon bend in my pants

 

[blackcat]

Danielson had a result he was proud of and likely "over the moon".
Horner passed Uranus on the way to his win.

pity the lot of the swanny - brecht

#frontalobotomyavatar

 

[blackcat]

Agreed, equating Danielson's performance at Utah with Horner's at the Vuelta was silly and pointless.

horner does not even roast his own coffee!

 

[blackcat]

horner does not even roast his own coffee!

horner is the inverse samson. just think vin diesel on weightloss peptides and Wahl

 

[happychappy]

When is the smackdown on Chris Horner? More like when is Chris Horner bringing the smackdown. Booooooom.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

When is the smackdown on Chris Horner? More like when is Chris Horner bringing the smackdown. Booooooom.

In one month's time, apparently!!

 

[Dr. Juice]

We should hope Horner sh!ts on the BP and dopes 2009 style when Lance was still in. Medium dosed EPO + Aicar + GW (1516?). Just not being caught by a test but make the BP go crazy and mix it with Froome / Quintana.

It would be even funnier if he loads 1999 style. But I think he would be kicked out by the end of week 1.

 

[veganrob]

Is there any reason Horner wouldn't dope? I think he dopes because there is no downside. What are they going to do, suspend him for two years....please. Ban him for life....really? Then he'll move into TV. Bans of any length only matter to guys who have a career that may last longer than another year or two. He'd almost be crazy not to prepare like he's never prepared in his life.

Well there is a huge downside to getting busted now if he wants to get into tv or stay involved in cycling in any way after career ends. However I agree with you he can dope to the gills because he has no fear of getting caught.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Well there is a huge downside to getting busted now if he wants to get into tv or stay involved in cycling in any way after career ends. However I agree with you he can dope to the gills because he has no fear of getting caught.

Huh? Plenty of busted dopers work in the sport.

The UCI is letting him dope. Based on that, he probably can hang around the sport after retiring. Why does Chris get special permissions? <shrug>

Judging by the support/indifference to doping Horner gets in comments in stories at CN he's got fans. He could be the title name of a gran fondo, he could sponsor a development team. He could show up to domestic events and crush them all. You'd have to see what he sounds like doing sports commentating to see if that would work.

At this point, he's all set.

 

[sponsor]

...
The UCI is letting him dope. ...

Got info on that?
Not that I doubt anyone is doping, but what is your evidence Chris is?

 

[Energy Starr]

Got info on that?
Not that I doubt anyone is doping, but what is your evidence Chris is?

The 2013 Vuelta?

 

[Energy Starr]

Huh? Plenty of busted dopers work in the sport.

The UCI is letting him dope. Based on that, he probably can hang around the sport after retiring. Why does Chris get special permissions? <shrug>

Judging by the support/indifference to doping Horner gets in comments in stories at CN he's got fans. He could be the title name of a gran fondo, he could sponsor a development team. He could show up to domestic events and crush them all. You'd have to see what he sounds like doing sports commentating to see if that would work.

At this point, he's all set.

My thoughts exactly. He'd probably get more money on TV if he does get busted.

 

[sponsor]

The 2013 Vuelta?

Oh, well I was looking for something other than winning as evidence.

I'm one of those that thinks if they pass the test - that should be enough.
Having rules that are clearly unenforceable does not do any sport any good.