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When Lance goes down, what changes?

The idea of punishing behavior is to discourage others from partaking in the given behavior. Will that occur with respect to doping in cycling when Lance goes down? I fear not.

The best lesson to be learned from all this is... even if you go way, way, way over the line, you'll probably get away with it... after all, even Pharmstrong nearly pulled it off. And that's the best case IF he gets nailed.

And what effect will it have on omerta other than to strengthen it? The lesson here is don't be as sloppy as Lance was, that's all.

I'm hoping that the case proceeds and Lance, Bruyneel and all their cronies are nailed, but I don't even begin to think this will affect Contador, Schleck, Menchov and the rest with respect to diminishing doping, weakening omerta or making the UCI serious about doping. To the contrary. I expect it all to get worse, if anything changes at all.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
The idea of punishing behavior is to discourage others from partaking in the given behavior. Will that occur with respect to doping in cycling when Lance goes down? I fear not.

The best lesson to be learned from all this is... even if you go way, way, way over the line, you'll probably get away with it... after all, even Pharmstrong nearly pulled it off. And that's the best case IF he gets nailed.

And what effect will it have on omerta other than to strengthen it? The lesson here is don't be as sloppy as Lance was, that's all.

I'm hoping that the case proceeds and Lance, Bruyneel and all their cronies are nailed, but I don't even begin to think this will affect Contador, Schleck, Menchov and the rest with respect to diminishing doping, weakening omerta or making the UCI serious about doping. To the contrary. I expect it all to get worse, if anything changes at all.

From what others have said at the time, after the Festina affair and prior to Armstrong's return, things had begun to get cleaner.
I certainly hope that this will be the case after Armstrong.
 
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Moose McKnuckles said:
From what others have said at the time, after the Festina affair and prior to Armstrong's return, things had begun to get cleaner.
I certainly hope that this will be the case after Armstrong.

You're right Moose, if they bear down on the UCI.
 

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Moose McKnuckles said:
From what others have said at the time, after the Festina affair and prior to Armstrong's return, things had begun to get cleaner.
I certainly hope that this will be the case after Armstrong.

Yes, the 3 months between the 1998 TdF Festina Affair and the Return of Lance in the 1998 Vuelta was a clean era in pro Cycling. Not too many races however;)
 

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Polish said:
Yes, the 3 months between the 1998 TdF Festina Affair and the Return of Lance in the 1998 Vuelta was a clean era in pro Cycling. Not too many races however;)

Not only that, but things were squeaky clean in 2006 (oops) and 2007 (oops), and 2008 (oops).

If LA would've just stayed retired PED use in the peloton would be non-existant by now.

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant/sick puppy/Alphonse/Chris/willfully stupid)
 
ThaiPanda said:
Not only that, but things were squeaky clean in 2006 (oops) and 2007 (oops), and 2008 (oops).

If LA would've just stayed retired PED use in the peloton would be non-existant by now.

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant/sick puppy/Alphonse/Chris/willfully stupid)

Because obviously once it has gotten that ingrained, all it would take is the guy who profited most from it to go away and poof! suddenly no one would bother with it any more.
 
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ThaiPanda said:
Not only that, but things were squeaky clean in 2006 (oops) and 2007 (oops), and 2008 (oops).

If LA would've just stayed retired PED use in the peloton would be non-existant by now.

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant/sick puppy/Alphonse/Chris/willfully stupid)


lol, they were probably cleaner, and the atmosphere was friendlier, people attacked freely, teams rode at similar speeds and large flat road guys didn't magically out climb 60kg specialists. it was nice little period of time. i agree.
 

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I do think his comeback has had one major positive point, namely the fact that Floyd Landis came out. This shows to the riders that Omerta can be broken by others and that that can have devastating effects, in this case a federal investigation. Perhaps this could create a cleaner racing, as perhaps was the case in this tour. How likely this is, is not something I can say, but at least I can hope
 

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Hugh Januss said:
Because obviously once it has gotten that ingrained, all it would take is the guy who profited most from it to go away and poof! suddenly no one would bother with it any more.

Yes, and as a matter of fact doping didn't start until after the 92 Olympics, and it picked up steam until approximately Sept 96 then it abruptly stopped. Then, it started again in 98 and stopped suddenly in 2006-2008. Then, it started again in earnest. I have a feeling it will stop again shortly.

Ahhhh, binary life is so simple. :cool:

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant/sick puppy/Alphonse/Chris/willfully stupid/BPC)
 

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Ferminal said:
No, he did it because of his failed attempt to blackmail LA, remember those scathing e-mails on the TRS website?

C'mon now Ferminal. I have seen and read countless things about how Floyd just couldn't live with the lie, and how he did this to clear his conscience.

Are you saying that if LA had given into the blackmailing FL wouldn't have a problem with the lying? Funny how that works. :D
 

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ThaiPanda said:
Really? I thought FL started talking because he couldn't live with the lie any longer. :confused:

Well, there is the chance that he could have talked, however it is not certain he would have talked in the same manner and that the consequences would be the same, had Armstrong not ridden anymore there would not have been much more scrutiny during the tour and the investigation would not have had the same impact as it has at the moment.
 
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Yes, and as a matter of fact doping didn't start until after the 92 Olympics, and it picked up steam until approximately Sept 96 then it abruptly stopped. Then, it started again in 98 and stopped suddenly in 2006-2008. Then, it started again in earnest. I have a feeling it will stop again shortly.

How do you come to the conclusion that doping started at the 92 Olympics?
I started racing in 1952 and doping in bigger races was prevalent then. Maybe not such sophisticated doping, usually amphetamine based stimulants.
In the 1960 Olympics in Rome a Danish rider died during the team time trial, the cause was cited as drugs. 32 years before your start, sonny!
 
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ThaiPanda said:
Yes, and as a matter of fact doping didn't start until after the 92 Olympics, and it picked up steam until approximately Sept 96 then it abruptly stopped. Then, it started again in 98 and stopped suddenly in 2006-2008. Then, it started again in earnest. I have a feeling it will stop again shortly.

Ahhhh, binary life is so simple. :cool:

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant/sick puppy/Alphonse/Chris/willfully stupid/BPC)

Please drugs have been around and enhancing athletes in all sports since the early 1900s. Track star Major Taylor and nitroglycerine ring a bell. "I cannot go on with safety, for there is a man chasing me around the ring with a knife in his hand."
 
DrC0721 said:
Please drugs have been around and enhancing athletes in all sports since the early 1900s. Track star Major Taylor and nitroglycerine ring a bell. "I cannot go on with safety, for there is a man chasing me around the ring with a knife in his hand."

You need to go a bit further back than that. Try the original Olympics.
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
From what others have said at the time, after the Festina affair and prior to Armstrong's return, things had begun to get cleaner.
I certainly hope that this will be the case after Armstrong.
LOL. The time between the Festina affair and Armstrong's return is either nil or at most measured in months, depending on when exactly you date each event.
 
Elverde said:
ThaiPanda said:
Yes, and as a matter of fact doping didn't start until after the 92 Olympics, and it picked up steam until approximately Sept 96 then it abruptly stopped. Then, it started again in 98 and stopped suddenly in 2006-2008. Then, it started again in earnest. I have a feeling it will stop again shortly.

How do you come to the conclusion that doping started at the 92 Olympics?
I started racing in 1952 and doping in bigger races was prevalent then. Maybe not such sophisticated doping, usually amphetamine based stimulants.
In the 1960 Olympics in Rome a Danish rider died during the team time trial, the cause was cited as drugs. 32 years before your start, sonny!
That was sarcasm that you quoted. At least that's how I read it.
 

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An American affair

Nothing changes. The sport has already largely cleaned up. Even Lemond admits that. That progress will continue.

The only thing that will change is the interest in cycling in the US will deminish. But former cheats like Basso and Contador will continue to be cheered in Europe.
 
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Even if Armstrong goes down, I don't believe anything will change unless the UCI also collapses. I don't think Armstrong will name any big names, they'll scapegoat some lowly soigneur and/or mechanic to take the fall (well remunerated of course) and will keep their mouths shut. Bruyneel will move on to another team with all his contacts, UCI will continue their corrupt ways and in one year or two, when the media has moved on to the next juicy story, the doping will continue.

Amstrong showed the way, he showed that extreme doping, extreme control and enforcement of omerta along with a pr-driven charitable side works. Someone will follow the model, there's always someone willing to sell the soul.
 

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